Calgary & Edmonton & Saskatoon & TSAC
| Topic: A need to acKnowlege |
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I think there was a post looking for the top 20 male players or players in Canada. Active Male in BC anyways. 1. Tuan Phan 2. Eric Dunn 3. Tim Dudra 4. Rob Shin 5. Jeff Allen 6. David Ahn Female 1. Moya Teilens 2. Bernadette 3. Char (possible #1 in the future. Offensively) |
Posted: Aug 14 2007 4:58AM
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I'm sure this wont spark any heated debates. Couldn't possibly be up to interpretation at all. |
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u forgot mitch as number 1 and me and tuan prolly tied for second |
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Now that is scary when you cant even have a top 20 players list in Canada. Only a top 6 WoW. If that doesnt tell everyone that we need some improvement in our player base i dont know what does. How can we possible expand this. Cause that scares me. Plus i dont think that the top 20 should be of recent we cant possible even come up with rational numbers. I think that you should have top 20 players of last year. or It shouldnt be done till after the World Championships of this year.  Cause for all i know and everyone else Tuan could possible be the best player in Canada but the truth is he hasnt won anything as of late and people like Eric and mitch shouldnt be thrown in the dust for how they are playing at the present time. good or bad. How do you rate players. Is it by who they can beat. Is it on there skill level. Is it based on how perty there game is. Or would it be how well they did in a World competition. Opinions arent a very good way to rate a player. Per Say If Johnny Horton beats Frederico Colignon is Johnny Horton a better player. Consistance is the way you rate a player. We dont have that many tournament to do so. Thats my opinion. If there would be One person that i would say is at the top it would be Eric Dunn. Of course that is my opinion. And from what i have heard Mitch was a great. so if there would be a way to rank them it would be how many years they stayed at the top of there game for the longest period. |
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wow.. thanks for the props Mario. coming from you that means alot! |
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Opinions are a great way to rate people. Many sports uses judges to score people and deteremine who ranks highest. Also opinions are a must to interept stats and achievements in team sports like picking Team Canada in ice hockey. Since foosball is sometimes a team event why not? Even in individualistic and determinisitic sports/games, opinions are used. In many forms of martial arts, rather then having sparring people are judged based off form. The World Series of Poker used be to be awarded based on vote... The list goes on.... Just thought I'd play devil's advocate. |
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You are completly right they are used every where in sports. Im not doubting that, what i am saying is that it is not the best way. The reason is that humans are biased. Like it or not. Just because someone wins a tournament doesnt mean they are the best. Being the Best is a big statement. You should let statistics speak for themselves. When you have statistics than you have a better understanding of who is better. Opinions are what you create. It doesnt always resemble the truth no matter how much you try. Its like this. If you ask an old timer who is better the generation now or than. He will say than. Your opinions are only based on your experience. I dont think that i now 1 person that has experience as a foosball analyst to offer there opinion on the top 20 in Canada. Not even Jim Stevens and he has been telecasting for years and has watched thousands of matches. I wish i would of understood that 1 year ago. Mario Ariganello |
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Maybe i should have added you to that list. Mario are you saying your the best? So if I played you and won 8 out of 10 times would that mean i am better than you? Just a question dude. |
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you never would win 8 out of 10 bean sprout..... what did bean sprout win last time he went to seattle thats right he was in the beginner/rookie category and was out in two....well perhaps if he doesnt get himself kicked out of the tourny next time he will win a game. what did he do in the points race finals in vancouver, out in single out in doubles, i dont even think he's ranked in the US. There are a few names not on that list and before the snide comment comes back I wasnt talking about me |
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yeah like peter k, vince, eric kehoe, gerry meister, paul pantzopolous,william , ray, etc.. |
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oh and i almost forgot , peter vicze |
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Maybe i should have added you to that list. Mario are you saying your the best? So if I played you and won 8 out of 10 times would that mean i am better than you? Just a question dude. NO im not saying im the best the best is a big statement. Just because you can beat me 8 out of 10 times doesnt mean you are better than me that is what i am trying to say. The only thing that means to me is that you match up very well against me. Think about it this way it like the triangle. You can beat me 8 out of 10, I can beat Eric 8 out 10, Eric can beat you 8 out of 10. Its the circle of life. Enjoy it. an open mind is a clear mind. an opinion mind is a closed mind. Mario Ariganello |
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Mario said: I wish i would of understood that 1 year ago. Looks like you grew in a year... that's good news! Maybe what happened when you were the captain last year had good effect on you :) By the way, you are totally right. Let the stats talk, even if we think a player is better, it's biased. Look at the fact, that's what matters! |
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hey i just listed the best players in bc that are still coming out. Looking at this thread there seems like there might be a chance that it will never be resolved. Sucks for that top 20 list. |
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it is true. The greatest foosball player ever to come out of Canada is Mitch Jang |
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Fellas in Alberta, how does the list of greats look like down there? |
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Based on my 5-7 years playing in the Alberta area (both Edmonton and Calgary) i can only speak from what i have seen from local and international tournaments. In no particular order Ang K, Darrel P, Tony L, from an all round passing, shooting and defence perspective these guys are the total package and i would say are the best in Alberta from a tournament standings perspective. From and offensive perspective i would say that Brian L shoots as well as any promaster i have seen (I have seen them all shoot live) from the 3 row or 2 row in terms of technique but is not usually patient when shooting. Defensively strong as well. I think from the edmonton area i see Simon E, Garry B, and Dale T as probably the smartest and technially competent players from that area from a shooting, passing, and defensive perspective. Sorry guys i would say that Christian Dunn is the best technical player of the lot but he has not figured out the mental part of the game and so has not shown the results he could have. I would say as a follow up to the Calgary player named we have guys like Todd Ross, Tony Tong, Bryn W,Bash (if only he had a head game could wreck guys) I watched bash dominate spredemen and amedio for almost an entire match until something set him off and he lost his head and the match. In terms of my position within the pecking order i am not sure and would prefer that my peers spoke to that. |
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In response to reply #2 i cannot speak about mitch's game but i can make the observation that he has not played anyone outside of BC in years so who really knows how well he stacks up against players in the rest of the country. As for Rob Shin and Tuan i would say that from my experiance Tuan is a stronger player (sorry Rob). To be honest i don't think Rob Shin is an international pro level player base on his offensive shooting series. Hard evidence of this is watching and playing against him in every Alberta tournament in the last 7 years. He has not won anything. (not trying to be brutal just brutally honest) |
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uh last tourny i was there , i just came back from korea after abuot a year and a half of no foos and entered that tourney with a blister on my wrist for my shooting arm ,the 3 bar I was only there to b goalie for tuan until it was healed but decided to enter singles andways. so it doesnt take a brain to figure out that i wasnt playing too strong |
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If i had to pick 20 players that right now would be Canada's top players in NO Particular order would be: Moya Kane Mario Mitch Eric D Darrel Tony L Ang Olavo Sean Gerry Tim Tuan Eric G Christan D Tony T Merv B Brian L Ahmed Taha Matt B If i had to pick 10 out of them, it would be the top 10 from that list. |
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I have seen or played most of the top players in Canada. A little weak on the eastern players though. Lots of other players who are very close, Simon E, Todd R, Tuan, Tony T , Mike S etc. Here are my top 18 players. I do look at stats like Mario mentioned should form a basis. Eric D Victoria , Mitch J Vancouver Mario Toronto , Darryl P Calgary Sean L Toronto , Kane Toronto Garry B Edmonton , Merv B Ottawa Christian D Edmonton, Olavo Toronto Moya Vancouver , Tony L Calgary Kent F Calgary , Matt B Calgary Ang K Calgary , Quinn B Saskatchewan Tim D Vancouver , Taha Ottawa |
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I don't mind the idea of an "as voted by the players" list but it is becomeing more and more apperent to me that the only way I'm going to get on a list is to make my own. Here is the mens list that was sent to me when I originally requested the suggestions, The top 10 tornado players in no particular order Sean Lee Darrel pop Olavo Taveres Eric Dunn Kane Gabriel Mario Ariganello Merv Busk Taha Angelus Carmus Tony Lubas As I said earlier, these lists are only opinions and only would really come to some value if we had enough lists to compile them and turn them into statistics. What would be even better is if we began the Canadian rating system at the qualifer at Vegas, or if we all started using the Vancouver system if possable. That would be great for Canadian foos and help us pick teams and give us benifits of being organized ect.. |
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Dammit i forgot Quinn. . Sorry Eric G - your off my list. B-) your latest awesome results put you on my list, but i've never really seen you play. hmm and i forgot about Kent - hmmm who's get bumped. hmm. sorry Christian - i havent heard your name in results in quite some time. does he still play? |
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Rob i stand by my first statement.... Can i ask if your still shooting a setup and quick shoot style of offense (if this is not the case then ignore the following)? Fundamentally i think this is a flawed strategy to shooting. If the opponent knows when your shooting but not where then at best you have a 30% shooting average (time averaged). When guys like Eric D, Kane, Mario, Darrel, and Tony L are shooting they often shoot at ~60-90% because they shoot at varied times so the defender does not know when or where the opponent is shooting. In that case a quick shot or two is good because it catches the defender off gaurd. I'm not trying to bash you here but i am trying to understand how your putting yourself above a guy like Eric D in the BC rankings? |
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how can rob put himself above me in the rankings, cause rob like's to talk alot of smack.. B-) and like most good foosers do not lack in skill and ego. plus rob and dave (the original poster) see Tuan play many times a week, so they are very familiar with his game, where they might see me play once every 6 months. So their judgement of my game is purely based on what they saw those times, and how i was playing at that time on that given night on that given table with X number of drinks in me. B-) |
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novapull ,ur talkin out of ur ass. once u go master like me then I might consider any of ur comments relevent. by the way , when was the last time u saw my game, oh yeah years ago. i rest my case. sometimes if u don't know something, if u keep ur piehole shut, then noone will know how ignorant u are but as soon as u open ur mouth, then they know for sure. no offence just like to b honest. |
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"sorry Christian - i havent heard your name in results in quite some time. does he still play?" The last major tourny I played in was the 2006 COFC in Saskatoon where I finished 3rd in OS and somewhere around 5th I think in OD with Quinn B. Other than that I guess there was our VIFA Year-end tourny which I finished 1st. Hopefully foos can regain some momentum here in Edmonton. I haven't touched a table in months :( |
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My top players would be Tuan, Eric D, Mario, and Kane. Although much of that is from Vids or reading postings. Yes Robbie does like to talk smack but more often then not he backs it up. He has the best loose ball skills of anyone in Canada that I have seen. When he was in practice I think he won money in several of the events at the Calgary tournament in 2004 or 2003. I don't know where his game is at these days but if he is in practice he could win any game at any time. A lot of great players are quick shooters - Mares, Adkisson, etc. I agree that quick shooting is not a good strategy but if you have ability it does not guarantee a lack of success either. I think that Robbie breaks away from a lot of best strategies when he plays, but his results (when he is in practice) speak for themselves. I would have Robbie definitely in my top 20 as I would Jeff Allen and Rob Gingell (in doubles anyway). Also, Tim Dudra is like Robbie in that he could win any match at any time. I am obviously biased towards B.C. players as I have seen them the most often but have been really impressed by the rest of Canadian players as well. I hope when I move back to Canada I will get to see them play more often. These are good days for Canadian foosball. I think it is great that we now have enough great players that there is not a consensus top 20 that everyone agreed on. When I played with Matt a number of years ago in Calgary his pull shot setup and mechanics were all wrong. Ball way too far forward. Shoulders way too square to the table. Based on your current ranking I am sure that you have solved that. But, I do remember then how reluctant you were to take any advice at all on your setup at that time so I am a little surprised how freely you offer your own advice to Robbie. Just a comment. Not trying to start a flame war but just trying to remind everyone that most foosers don't react well to criticism in private let alone in public. With regard to Mitch, you just need to watch the quality of his 5 bar (passing, defense, reading his opponent, patience, different looks) to know what kind of player that he was. Since he doesn't travel much now that is hard for others to see. He is the only Canadian player that I have ever seen who had a 5 bar anywhere in the league of a top world player. There is a depth to his 5 that most other players lack. I know I will never have it but I can recognize it when I see it. His back pin series has not transferred well to Tornado and his Euro Toe series is not strong enough to back up his 5 bar. Where he ranks now is kind of irrelevant if he is not willing/able to travel to play and to represent Canada. On his table, in his day, from what others have said, he was likely the best male player that Canada has produced to date. Probably even as successfull as Moya has been on the women's side. I am hoping in the future that there will be enough competitions between Canadians that we will be able to see objective rankings based on play against other Canadians. Perhaps having a regular Canadian championship being held at the same time as Vegas and in Vegas would be one way as so many Canadians are there anyway? Do they have Tim Horton's in Las Vegas? |
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>when was the last time u saw my game, oh yeah years ago. LMAO Robbie.."no offense" but has your game changed all that much?? Well, of course I mean other than the new three bar and five bar you sport every other Sunday.  *hugs* |
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2 funny mo, but after ur finnished laughing ur ass off, go on this same site and click where it says top singles players in vancouver's points. it says #1 tuan and look who's# 2 , oh riiight its me. and b sure and check it next month too see me at #1 hey the the cream rises to the top baby. |
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In the absence of true pro/masters except one or two, and with a points system designed to make the lower ranks rise faster and top ranks always needing to get first or lose points Whatever’s left will rise to the top and are you not on the bottom end of the pros in doubles?? I would put Eric D, Moya T and Tim D, I dont think any of the rest of us in BC, right now, are consistant enough, to be honest |
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Eric D I recognize that rob has enough ego to choke a horse. All foosers (myself include) need a little to win i think. If your too humble, people walk all over you in matches. But i prefer a little more of a silent ego rather then making it so blatant. I take offense when a guy as skilled as rob shin publicly says that he is a better player then you when you have played and beat the best players in the world. It shows a lack of maturity and respect (not saying im being much better here lol). Rob the Vancouver term “master” means nothing to me. Master to me implies USTSA ranked master, which means you have to actually win somewhere other then Vancouver for it to count. Im not saying you’re not capable of doing this at some point I just don’t believe that compared to the other aformented Canadian players that you can say your in the top. I think the reality of the situation is probably what Rob G mentioned. I would be interested to hear what Moya thinks are the top BC players (excluding herself) when she stops laughing. |
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Hey Fred good to hear from you. I never knew your last name so i didn't know who "ButHeDoesntLookAsian" was. To answer part of your statement i do shoot the pull shot several orders of magnitude better then i did when we first met (that was my first tornado tourney). I have since moved to the rollover and found much success both locally and in Vegas, Utah, and in Saskatoon tournaments. It doesn’t really matter however since I am not claiming to be #1 or close to that in the region. |
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matt, u commenting on my game when u saw me play last is as stupid as me commenting on ur game when i saw u play last with ur shitty pull shot and f**ked up backwards stance. so like i said before , why dont u keep that hole under your nose shut and comment on things u know about. and by the way I thnk erics definately in the top 5 in vancouver and anyone can beat anyone at any time. |
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listen people.. foosball is about playing, practicing, improving and being consistent. some people desire the game enough to play it 4-5 times a week. some don't. more to life than foosball. who's seen Lee Murray's game lately? why isn't he on that list? i think he'd smoke the pants off lots from the top 20 list above..... always the same argument, who's the best from which region, etc. etc. - who cares.. you guys should put up your own money, and play singles, doubles, cash matches etc like in the old days. STFU works really well in those situations.. here's a suggestion.. in vegas, have a couple of CASH tables. singles, doubles, whatever. this is how it used to be done.... long before Tornado came along.....what's the harm in staying warm, playing your asses off, and letting the actions speak for themselves....and no crap about not playing for money.... what do you think a tournament is? |
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since we're putting up top 20 lists, here is my view from what i've seen in the past 5 years.. in no order, but perhaps by region eric d moya darrel ang tony l mario kane olavo i think this list is very consistent if i left you off the list, sue me. or we could play for it.... |
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Rob, Wtf have you accomplished outside of BC or Seattle? |
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Fred, I don't disagree with Kane or Mario in any way shape or form, and certainly Eric needs no explanation to be in your list; but how in the smofa can you possibly include Tuan without mention of any of the Alberta players in the same post? Did you forget Dudra's assessment following the world cup qualifier? Are you not looking at the results from the last year's majors? I usually don't toot my own horn or that of my peers in Alberta, but in case everyone is unclear: TOOT! |
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im not allowed in the states or id b there every year ima try to come to ur next tourny if i can and i prefer to let the table do the talkin. |
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Again Rob, Wtf have you accomplished in the tourneys you've you've attended in AB (or Sask, but I don't think you've travelled that far)? |
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whens the last time u came to vancouver to play some of our top players? The only persons game i respect is mitch's and i guess opinions are like *bleep*s , everyones got one.My games not the same as when u last saw it so are u saying that because i didnt enter and win some tounys that i couldnt possible b included in the top 20? |
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Why would I come out to Van to play what - 8 players in a dyp? You guys haven't organized a tourney in the years I've been playing. I might not have a problem including you in the top 20 (or maybe I do), but the top 5 - gimme a f%&@*!^g break. |
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This is by far the most entertaining thread I've ever seen here. Darrel, rob never claimed to be in the top 5 in canada, just the top 5 in bc. Just cause he inferred that he was above eric and you and everyone else put eric in the top 5 in canada doesn't mean he puts himself in the top 5 in canada. That would require him putting eric in the top 5, not everyone else... Cheap insults to someone game/results is no substitute for an actual argument... |
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i was talkn about best in bc. we would have to have a big canadian tourny to see whos what in canada. and darryl I would include u in the top 20 in canada. my opinions are still the same and they arent likely to change but i was a little confused why matt would chime in on his rating of me as a fooser when ive only been in aberta like 2 times in 20 years and only met him twice, how he became an expert on my game, and by the way , matt, i shoot fast or slow, i have both now. |
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I would just like to remind some of you that playing at a master level and playing in the States are mutually exclucive activities. Doing one does not automatically imply you are doing the other.What I would like to see is how much it costs to go to the States weighed agianst how much people win, not including VIFA. Then weigh that agianst what Mitch has made in Van. I've won tons in Calgary and that (top seed 2005) but I don't play much now. If I had six weeks and a reason to play, tourny or points race, I could make the top 10 or 5 maybe. Going to the States is not reason enough cause among other things I hate that iraq war and don't really want anything to do with that US country right now. Anyways I would feel better if the people who think they are so good because they have been going to the states would want to prove it is true by promoting a national points race instaid of waving their airplane tickets around. perfect lightning |
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This is an imbarassing conversation. Kathy Brainard requested a list of our top 20 men and proly wanted something diffrent then USTSA for her book. And didnt ITSF request years ago that we be in a position to field teams somehow. So we not only have this semi-productive conversation after the deadline for Kathys book and but for ITFS we throw another tournament onto what is already an exhaustive schedual of events for all of our players that weekend at Vegas. What have you got planned for the next world cup? At least Addam brought a team instaid of a contest. When I think of the kind of impression about canadian foos that the feasco of our fighting over Addams team made on players from other parts of the world, it makes me kind of wish we were at a point we could just happily bring a team to Vegas. At some point there is going to be enough of these top ten lists posted here that we could comepile the results.What would be interesting is if we put the top six finnishers onto the team and if you think you're better but didn't get picked then you can challange somebody to their spot, beet em in Vegas, one match 3/5 singles or doubles and you get their spot. perfect lightning |
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guys ease up a bit. this conversion is mostly just in fun. I never took it that the list would be given to cathy and put in that book. because of the various reasons everyone has alluded to here already, there's no way we can give her a accurate list, cause all we have now is everyone's opinion. and we will continue to only have 'opinion' until we get a national championships type event happening every year. This year i put out feelers for what promoters wanted to run their local qualifiers for a national championships, and get next to no response. So if you players want to stop arguing over who is better than who, then push your promoters to get involved in a national championships, and lets put these types of dicussions to bed. Greg, i dont find this compares at all to what went on with the CTSF and the world cup team. this is just a dicussion of who thinks who is the best. who cares ultimately - it doenst mean anything - its just for fun. What the CTSF did was damaging to canadian foosball - and the trust of the players has been broken - and must be earned back - which is what i hope TSAC is at least along the path to accomplish. |
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Yea qualifiers for a national championship may not get support, there hasn't been a major tourny in edmonton or vancouver for several years and calgary's was canceled this year, but there are points systems used in various comunities all over this country. So why cant TSAC tap into that notion and get (or at least promote) a national points race. If we had that then at least if Kathy or anyone else wants to know who the top players are, we have an answer based on how well we have played. This country is just too big for a single championships because no matter where it is held some very good players won't spend the money to go. I like the idea of a qualifer in Vegas but we have nothing else ready. The problm is it puts an extra burden on our players that weekend, and by throwing the qualifier in Vegas we squander an opertunity to promote foos in Canada. There are already enough events in Vegas for everyone but there isnt enough in canada. A point race could make our dyps important. We have had some time to work on this but we are not getting the job done. If TSAC wants to earn the players trust then they have to find a way to rank the players such that those who play in the States are not favored, so if for example Mitch is the best then TSAC has him at the top and has a tangable reason why he is there, his points. |
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Cyborg, My attempt was designed to toot the BC horn but at the same time voice my respect for players across the country. I obviously failed on the second part. If you are looking for my respect for Alberta players you guys definitely have it. Same for the Saskatchewan players and Ontario players. I hope one day to meet some of the Quebec players as well. Adam and Co. I will pass on though. In Tuan I see flashes of brilliance that go beyond what you see in his day in day out play. I agree with Mario that consistency is the key and while Tuan does not have that at an elite level I think that there is more there than many from Alberta there have seen in his play so far. Anyway I will restate again I think many Canadian foosballers all across the country are great players and have already achieved much more than their comparatively small number of total players would lead you to expect in terms of international play. This is exactly what I tell players all over the world when I get a chance to. Americans in particular always get to hear about how much better Canada is doing than the U.S. in ITSF play. Ha ha. Keep it up team Canada! If you are interested, you can read about the Asian scene in the next installment of Foosball Quarterly. Regards, Fred in Shanghai |
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Eric, just a question. Currently statistic wise, I am second in Vancouver. Tuan, David, Tim. Does that necessary mean then, I would be ranked near them when it comes to the to 20 in Canada? I am open to any feedback counting me in or not. |
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David, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. hahahah |
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What a great thread to read, and the best part is that there's absolutely no way to have a definitive list. I think I agree most closely with Eric D's, from what I've seen... however I'd probably also add Hugo Tavares as he's such a strong goalie... and maybe Franklyn Malheiro as well from Ottawa. Depends on if the list is focused more on singles and offensive players, or evenly crediting strong goalies. I've seen Hugo shut down guys like Terry Moore and other promasters, and Franklyn did a great job on Loffredo and always gives a tough gritty game. I don't think anybody should be taking offense at not being listed, there's a lot of talent in Canada, and not all of it has had the same kind of exposure. Best way to get respect though is to play in larger tournaments and produce some results! Small DYP's do mean something, and top 10 results also count, but actually winning or finishing top 3 at major events (regardless of level) is the best indicator of consistent talent. |
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Just because a person chooses not to go to the States it does not necessarily follow that they are not as strong a a player, in some cases the strongest player from an area may not want to play in the south, that dosn't mean they shouldn't make the top ten list, if they can dominate locally the players that are playing in the States then they are pritty f#&*!n good. perfect lighting |
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I just get frustrated when TSAC does so little to promote foos at a local level. Other people really do ask us who our top players are and it would be functional to have a list that was not just based on US preformances. And when players like Mario and Kane are saying that a ITSF event plus a qualifier for that event are a bit much and distracting them from their main goals in the Open events then I start thinking we really are doing something wrong here. On the other side of the coin we will be playing each other and extra incentive to go to Vegas makes most players delighted with Vegas. Coming up with an actual list of who our best players are based on a Canadian points race would promote foos locally and have other functions as well. |
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David asked, "Currently statistic wise, I am second in Vancouver. Tuan, David, Tim. Does that necessary mean then, I would be ranked near them when it comes to the to 20 in Canada? " for my ranking list anyways i was going by the scenario if i had to pick 20 players to go on a team to compete agaisnt other countries - i wasnt taking into account a given number of goalies or anything, but added a couple in there namely gerry tony l, and sean lee, etc. but to more directly answer your question, if a player does well locally would i consider them a top player in Canada if they are close to ranking to someone that i already consider a top player? no - i dont care if that person is ranked higher locally than someone i consider to be a top player in Canada. A top player in Canada to me, is someone that has the skills, the mental game, the experience, can handle the pressure of big games, and has traveled and proved that their game can hold up agaisnt the top players in the world. Many people play locally, and know everyone's game, and know what works and what doesnt agaisnt their opponents - even before the ball drops. A signal to me of this type of player is someone who says, 'i just need to figure your game out, and then i'll shut you down' or something to that effect. To me a top player can figure that stuff out on the fly, and fast enough so that they are still able to win. If you dont travel, you dont konw that the way you like to shoot (i'm not talking directly to you dave, just in general), only works agaisnt certain types of defenses. This also applies to the types of defense you have, it may only work agaisnt those in your area, where if you travel you might learn that the way some people shoot will rip you to shreads. All this adjusting has to occur while the game is in progress - and someone that can do that and still play at the top of their game is what i consider to be a top player in Canada. I've seen it time and time again, i'll see someone's games locally, where they rip it up, and then see them on tour, and it's like they are all scared and stuff - out of their element or something. Some hot shot local who never travels to me is not skilled or not a possible pick for top 20 or so, just unproven, so i cant put them on my list yet. i could go on and on. .but i think you get my meaning. |
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wen i said "Some hot shot local who never travels to me is not skilled or not a possible pick for top 20 or so, just unproven, so i cant put them on my list yet." i meant Some hot shot local who never travels to me is not UNskilled, they are just not a possible pick for the top 20 yet, the are just unproven to me..." |
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Wow this great..Tnx for the entertaintment guys. The guys out there that should be most respected are the ones that competes at a world level. The only fooser that i see consistently do well are Moya, Mario, Kane and Dunn. You guys definately have my respect and should be rated top 5 in can cuz u earned it. Im not saying they are best in canada but they are the only ones that competes at world level today. To find the best in canada we must find a way to have a torny to crown a champion for canada, then we will solve this matter. I only mention this cuz their are players who dont wanna go down and cant even cross if they want to. Since we are on topic and if i have to rate number one..Ive seen everybody played but the fooser i think is the greatest player to come out of can is Mitch Jang. Not only he will beat you but make you look stupid while doing it to a point where you wanna quit the game. Ive seen it done to our bc finest. |
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What the chess players do is every year each province crowns a provincial champ. Each year a diffrent city is chosen to host the Canadian open and during that event the Canadian Closed is also held where all the provincial champs play a round robin to crown the Closed Champ. It is the most presdigious event for canadian chess. The provincial events are not big money, only open to residents, and of course rating the events does not seem to make the top players scared ... perfect lightning |
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It's difficult to have an accurate Canadian ranking system for many reasons, all of which have been discussed on these forums for many years. The Canadafoos one was a good attempt, but I just don't think it's going to happen. Too much work, not enough fooser volunteer hours to create/maintain it, plus promoters/organizers to always update it. Different regions have different player bases, tables, tournament activity, etc... frankly, I don't even think our Toronto player base would put much stock into a Canadian ranking system or benefit from it. Step one should be getting momentum into having larger consistent Canadian tournaments, the rest will follow. In the meantime, pretty much the only time Canadian foosers from different provinces see each other are at non-Canadian tournaments. So that's the easiest barometer of success that we currently have. Eric makes a great point about why local success isn't as great an indicator... being able to adjust your game under the bright lights in a pressure situation, where you've travelled x hours and invested numerous days and time away from home... playing on tables that are unfamiliar, over a period of several hard-core draining days... against many players whom you're unfamiliar with...and to still consistently have success. That's much different than playing a local match or even a provincial tournament where if you or your opponent lose, oh well just get in the car and you're home in 20 minutes or a few hours at most. |
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Just for the record I'd like to point out that Eric beat Terry Moore in singles in the States (which you would think indicative of future success and strength (which it was)) and then came to play tournys here on the praires, loosing 4 times before finally winning singles on his 5th trip (as far as I can recall). The reason he didn't win the first 4 times is not because people knew his game or anything as rediculus as that but rather he just didn't play at a high enough level. That level would be something like a USTSA Pro level or so. The point is that if quinn's victory in toon or seans victory in TO proved little then the USTSA Pro rankings of the players they beat are meaningless and in turn the victories those pros got in the States to get those rankings also meaningless. The US tournys have a higher ceiling with the PMs of course but unless your beating these guys consistantly then what your doing is learning as opposed to demonstrating skill. I do think that winning in Canada requires play at a level higher then say winning Semi in the states (eg. Jack Chong). Anyways that's my opinion on that, at the pro level it's not where you play, it's who you beat and especially how often you beat them. Ratings is a long arguement which I may try to make agian someday, but just for now I would say that if I represented an industry and I wanted to throw some money or a car at some sport, I would choose one with a national rating system over one with a pile of e-mails every time. We will only get out of it what we put in and if thats to be nothing, fine by me. I havn't played enough in the last few years to make a list of top players, and only a fool could argue with the core of most of these lists. A lot of great players, but if you've never seen Gerry Miester light it up from the 2-bar that can be a real treat. |
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what was that greg.. i heard... blah blah blah, Eric beat Terry Moore in singles, blah blah blah. LOL just joking. I'll respond more later. but i thought i'd just share that little jab |
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Merv beat Terry Moore in OS in Michigan State 07 Taha |
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ya but did he beat him in a 3/5 - 3 games straight!!! pwnd! |
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Olavo & Hugo beat Moore and Loffredo in KY OD last year... has Moore ever beat a Canadian?  Greg, I wasn't diminishing the significance or talent at Canadian 'major' events.... but there just aren't enough of them, and they tend to be regional versus tournaments like Vegas, Kentucky, Texas State, which attract players from multiple countries, including most parts of Canada. Foosapaloosa was great a few years ago (Mario and I were VERY impressed with the tournament, and by the way I was impressed with your mental and very smooth game), and several of the Ottawa tournaments that Franklyn & Chris T have run were very high quality. But they need to draw more Canadians nationally to get a true sense of national rankings IMO. It's the very rare occasion where you'll see easterners at central/western events, and vice versa... I totally agree that foos as it stands is not a draw for sponsors, and a ranking system would help... but it doesn't need to be national, just like Tennis, Golf, etc all use international rankings. Results from all major tournaments regardless of location should count towards an international system. |
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Terry Mahore beat the hell out of me in Open Singles i don't remember where. I think it was last year some time. He completely shut my brush series down it was really bad. That is the reason why i learned the tic tac series. For anyone that hasn't gone to a major. Things that you learn at a major. Having unfinished business at home hurts. anything that could distract you like money problems at home. At major tournament its a grooling 15 or 16 hours day. fatigue kills even the best players. Its really hard to stay confident the hole time. It takes lots of practice. Anyone is beatable. adjusting your game but still playing your game. You really get to see if your technic is truly polished when you are at a major. You have to play so many different people with different styles. you only need 1 doubt to ruin your focus and your vision. (i see this all the time)"its also happened to me" negativity is the cause of losing. man must pass from the competitive to the creative mind NO one says that you can or cant do it but it does have to be proven. Mario Ariganello |
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Greg, Back in his day, JR was probably the best in Canada. Don't forget about Doug McCarthy and his dominence in the early eighties. Kent, Chris Steele, Brian and Ang were all right up there too during this era. Not to forget yourself, Wilson, and Sanj. It was a different time back then, no internet to brag yourself up, just rumors about this guy from Edmonton was suppose to be really good or this back pin shooter from Calgary or some Mitch guy from Vancouver that was suppose to be unbeatable. Somehow the mistique of the player is now gone. If you don't know how good someone is, just wait, you will be able to read up on the net and someone will tell you how good they are.  It really dosen't matter and it is kinda interesting to see what people think. Someone once said your only as good as your last game. Maybe for some, or for one your only as good as your next game. As in the best is yet to come! |
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