| Topic: Referees |
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I'd like to take a bit of a straw poll here to see what people think. Tonight when I played Dave I wanted a referee. There was no certified referee present but plenty of experienced players. Of course, none of them wanted to ref after Dave made a big stink about them not being certified. In the end, I foolishly elected to play without a referee. This, to sum it up, will not happen again. It is not fair to me to have to play Dave without a referee since I spend the whole match either expecting to be cheated or getting cheated and this, like tonight, screws with my concentration. I suspect Dave feels it is not fair to him to have to play with someone who is not a certified official although I can't speak for him. Moya used to ref even though she was not certified - she is an experienced player and knows the rules. This is therefore a precedent in Vancouver and suggests that any experienced players can serve as referees, despite not being certified, if there are no certified referees present to officiate. This is the conundrum: when a match is called, I call for an official timeout to get a referee. If one cannot be found because people are unwilling or Dave refuses to acknowledge them, the timeout doesn't end - it can't end until an official is present. So, eventually, the match will go over its time limit and both players will forfeit. Since there is no fair way to advance one or the other or place one or the other on the loser's bracket, whatever the case may be, both should forfeit out of the tournament. Anyone else have any other thoughts or better solutions to the problem? |
Posted: Mar 7 2009 4:08AM
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I didn't cheat tonight, anyone else see it that way? You had one call for a jar that was it. You got it back on your 3 and couldn't finish. I don't think you would let me cheat you Tim. Call your refs, its legal. As long as he or she is an official ref. |
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i agree with tim, noone shud have to play dave without a ref, i think a non certified experienced player is the only reasonable solution,if he didnt cheat, we wouldnt need refs at all |
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same out come with refs |
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My feeling is that every player has a right to call a ref but both players have a right to ask that the ref be certified. My own bias tells me that Dave does get strenght from pushing the envelope and does occasinally go over but if called he will abide by the ruling. He will complain about it but will abide by it. Tim does have a strong game. Maybe the best in Vancouer at present. Players can get in his head though and that can affest his play. My solution is get more certified refs. I think Robert is one. I passed the test at Vegas without studying for it. To ask either Dave or Tim to give in is not in their best interests and would be a non_issue if there were more certified refs. Should Dave or Tim give in? Yes, they both should but one side should not be asked to give in due to peer pressure. I am interested to hear what Roger thinks on this one. |
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To ask that a player travel to a tournament in Vegas to be certified is obsurd. In the past we never had a problem with players being designated as qualified locally. Some of the certified ref's out there are a joke and a title doesn't automatically make you a good ref. To demand that a referee at a local tournament be certified is just being pompous. The next thing we will hear is someone wants a pro ref!! There are more than a couple players who are more than capable to ref any match. I say point the finger at a few of them and say 'you are capable to ref in Vancouver' |
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Like Peter says, just certify your own refs for your local tournaments. Your not playing in a USTSA event - your playing in a friday night local. This should solve your reffing problems, but for some people they actually believe that they don't do anything wrong. As Costanza once said, just remember, It's not a lie if you belive it. |
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I have AlWAYS agreed with Peter's point. Everyone knows the rules and can ref, I think it is perfectly fine to even have a non-experienced player (sorry mike) like Mike Steinbach ref matches. He knows all the rules, 10 15 secs, jars, touch 2, no 3 wall passses etc. I didn't make this certified ref shit up, I was brought up in a culture that only allowed certified refs to ref in vancouver. All i have seen was when a ref is needed "NO this guy can't ref because he's not certified" or "buddy is not a ref". Only certified ref's can ref, Tim being the head official. The one time I go along with what everyone does I get called for it because someone is a being a poor sport and childish. It's just a game. I volunteer to be one of the capable refs, Master's are an obvious choice to be refs in vancouver. I have a ton of points, experience is not lacking. |
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It's cool, I can play you Tim with a refs there all the time if you like(as long as we both agree with a suitable ref) I'm so used to playing with refs now, when I was in vegas, playing with refs was a breeze. And i've only been cheated by the refs on purpose only a few times, but karma has bitten them up the ass. |
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Dave, you were the one who refused to allow Jeff to ref. You made a big noise about and then Jeff decided he didn't want to do it. As for you giving me the ball back on my three bar after the jar call, that was because you played on and coughed it up to my three bar trying to pass it forward. Hardly the same as what you describe here: "You had one call for a jar that was it. You got it back on your 3 and couldn't finish". Additionally, just because I don't call doesn't mean there is not more going on. You generally refuse to accept a call made against you, even with a ref playing. What is the point of asking someone for a call if they won't ever acknowledge they were in the wrong. |
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Sorry, that should be "even with a ref present" not "even with a ref playing" which is just stupid. |
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Geez Timmy, the match wasn't even close, why you so p'd, 2 straight games, your jar call was on the 2nd game and that was 5-2 in my favor. One sided as it gets. Your main disadvantage yesterday was you could not pass effectively as you did in the past, not cause i cheated you. That's all it came down to man. What ever happened yesterday is in the past, yesterday jeff wasn't a certified ref, that's the way it has always been since i've been around. It's not fair for you shit on me like this. I know I'm the most disliked member of the family but I don't cheat, everyone would call a ref then. Why is it that only 2 people call a ref on me. The same guys. (probably more will now, ie.Robbie) For the future, Tim, I don't have any problem with Robert, Nelson, Tuan, Shane, Steinbach, Peter K, Jeff Allen (when we aren't argueing who's game is shittier that night), Tung, Tench, Teilens(if he ever shows as tournament director) reffing our matches. They all know the rules and would be fair. You should be able to have no problems in the future to find one. Ideally, I would most certainly have Robert or Nelson. I like how the ref and they have written the exam and have the most right to officiate. However, if we start letting people reffing without their licenses, we defeat the purpose of maintaining tradition, and proper order of our sport. It doesn't bother me either way, so it shouldn't be a problem letting experienced players be referees. Tim, I like you man, you are a really good player, and I was the first to admit that you WERE the top player in town for a while. You can't win them all Tim. |
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oh and I should always play on the near table, since i am the main event  |
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Just kidding.....really. |
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correction, dave, i heard u and tuan yelling at each other on a call during your match, and to be fair, some people get rattled when they are blatantly cheated in a game an it affects their play mentally, not me but some people.you're just proof that sometimes cheaters do prosper,lol |
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yeah we did, took it on my 2 bar. |
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Dave you are a newcomer to Vancouver foosball so just to set you straight... We used un-certified refs for years and years, we just designated players who were capable. At a later time we certified our own refs. So if we are talking about tradition then get it right and not pull something out of a hat to back your argument. Maybe say "as long as I can remember or such"  As for me reffing - I could call a match but a few of the new rules I would need explaining. The main thing when reffing is staying on top of the players and not letting the match get outa hand. If there is a rule you do not know then there are enough players not in the match to point you in the right direction. Crap many times in the past a match was put on hold while we would interpret the rule book. I know they cleaned it up alot and so it is way easier now. Besides you are always on your best behaviour when I seem to be around lol |
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It's got nothing to do with how yesterday's match went. I'd had too many drinks and was sucking up a storm. That said, I still don't enjoy playing a match when I have to worry on every play that I will be cheated. Whether or not you are willing to admit it or not Dave, many players in the city think, or at least express those thoughts to me, that you bend if not outright break the rules in most matches you play. This is the reputation you have earned and only you can change that reputation. Furthermore, there is little value in ever pointing out to you that you've done something amiss because you deny it just about every time. You even deny it when a ref is at the table telling you what you have done. The only "call" I made on Friday was regarding a flagrant jar and I wasn't expecting to get the ball back (and my expectations were met). I simply made a sarcastic "nice jar" comment to let you know that I had spotted it. I used to be quite content to play a "you cheat me, I cheat you worse", style of game. But perhaps I've changed and I don't want to play that style anymore so I would rather have refs present. Last night you put forward a lame argument as to why Jeff couldn't ref the match and I foolishly played without a ref. If anything, I'm mad at myself. I wanted to have a discussion here so that there would be some certainty in the future as to what happens when I come up to a table and there is no "certified" ref handy. |
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well ill be there sunday Tim and I think Ill have to start up the old charging $2 a head from now on! and in my humble opinion a ref is there for the one that feels like he/she is being cheated so they can focus on there game and not the other players actions real or imagined. just foosball!!! |
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Whatever you guys, Take it eaaaaasy! I wish you guys partied with me tonight, and hung out with me, then I think you would see that i'm not as bad as you yhink/ I LOOOOOVE FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!! and *bleep* you player haters!! lol. I;ll see you ass'es tomorrow, peace!! Refs Hey Pete, chill out man, come down to Soho and i'll buy you a beer! Life IS GOOD MA!! on a serious note, Tim, I want your ass with 5 ref;s at the table!! The better man will always win in the end. GOOOOOD LUCK TO ALLL!! |
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I love you guys man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!''' hey, we should all rent out a place and just party together, what do you say, ahhahha. |
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women make men do strange things |
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Do any one of you *bleep*s know who my friends are? NOooooooooooooope. It's ying and there's yang. fellas. Horatio once told me. you can never be friends with foosers because they are all eventually competition in the end. I don't give a shit though becuase, I am so damn good. hahahahahhaahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. YOung stallion bitches!!! |
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Hey Pete, when are you actually going to come down???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would love to see you. |
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To all you dumb *bleep*s who forget this is just a game on local nights, give your heads, a shake. Reffs, jar, jar, jar, jar......most people realize its just another friday, sunday, and if it's not a serious jar they don't care. HEEEEY TIM!!! I can't wait to play you, There is no question you may win on any given day with referees, but what if i win with refs there, As long as then, you have nothing to say, REFEREES ARE GOOD IN MY BOOKS!!!!!!!!! If that what make's you stop this nonsense. And the "others" who say I cheat lol. Bottoms up looooooooooooosers!! |
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I meant fooooosers.........really/ |
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Insert or waiting for Robbie's (the guy who won't win a tournament for a long asss time, don't know why though) comments in a little while. Good nigt all. |
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Just got a call to go for late night eats... FYI this is why my belly is so *bleep*ing huge. Admitting is the first stage in quitting hahaha |
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Before I go, I heard this. McDonalds advertises 100% beef. The Meat company they purchase from is called 100% beef. So when McDonalds says they use 1000^% beef there not techinically lying. I'm goinf t=o order the mgnuggets., we will see how i feel in the afternoon. GFKN NIGHT EVERYONE!!!! PS Pete, come down once in a while!! We ssould love to have you there. |
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I changed my mind. I m in no condition to go out and eat with people at this moment. I;m looking at the time and it seems like it's an hour faster than usaul. Set your clocks men, don't want guys showing up at 9 when its reallly 10....lol *bleep* you,. I love you guys' |
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Pete when are you coming down? |
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you should see what goes on here, tournament director. |
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You have to make your first appearance of 2009 eventually!! We miss you Pete!!!! Tournament Director! |
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Funny, when I saw this thread had reachec 32 posts overnight...on a Saturday night...I knew EXACTLY what had happened without reading it. Ha Ha. |
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"Hey Pete, chill out man, come down to Soho and i'll buy you a beer! Life IS GOOD MA!! on a serious note, Tim, I want your ass with 5 ref;s at the table!!" LOL, the above is a direct quote from daves reply#19, he says emphatically that he wants "Tim's ass" with 5 refs watching , hhaha a little alcohol and the truth comes out, i guess u dont need a foosball table if all u want is Tim's ASS! haha |
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Tim can you please check your law books on the definition of PUI (Posting Under the Infuence)? Do you think the webmaster can add an "unpost" button? Sorry Dave but those posts are hilarious! |
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btw dave," chicken of the sea is not chicken", it's tuna |
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i got a new name for u dave: "jar jar binks!"lol |
The last post to this thread is more than 30 days old.