| Topic: Ouch - Warrior is.....in trouble... |
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Decipher it any way you want, but looks like tough times ahead for Warrior: http://www.foosballboard.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5875 |
Posted: Mar 29 2010 3:42PM
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Talk about timing ... Fireball never had a better chance than right now! |
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Guess who couldn't wait to call me today with the news as soon as I woke up? Dennis, the fireball guy! He and I could not agree on a role for me with fireball in the future but we are still friends and I still sell his tables here in Shanghai. It will be interesting though to see how this plays out. The U.S.'s past in foosball is both their biggest strength and their biggest weakness. Everyone old wants TS days back which financially might just not work and creates false expectations. I think the European style fun events and leagues in bars instead of only focusing on pro events and big money is a lot healthier for the growth of the game. Too bad the U.S. Players all seem to sell themselves to any wealthy guy who waves a big purse and a crappy table at them e.g. warrior., TS, etc. Hope fireball does it the old tornado way of just making a good table and having payouts that make sense so they are still around. Anyway, the soap opera of foosball goes on... |
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I dont think the warrior is a crappy table what so ever. Playability is great. Will it last 50 years of abuse like a tornado, absolutely not. |
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Dude, I am even repeating mary's own words here to Dennis. Material quaility, build quality, longevity, heavy cheaper rods, it all adds up. The only thing that she said she liked was the ball. Now, Mark Murrell's version was a different story! |
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Dude, i like playing on warrior, not a crappy table at all. Its a good solid table for what it is. |
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"THAT TIME HAS COME FOLKS... Brendan and I are close friends and I have urged him for some time to STOP - get a quality coin operated table and home table finished - get the infrastructure finished to support the sale and marketing of the finished tables - AND THEN SPEND MONEY LIKE A DRUNKEN SAILOR THAT LOVES FOOSBALL when you have some income flowing in to support the spending." ~ lott1 I guess it's been deciphered for us lol |
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Johnny Lott has been at the forefront of every failed foos endeavour. OK, maybe not every one. |
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At least he is not promoting the return of Wally Burger. I think that means it has a chance... |
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What are u trying to say Fred |
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I knew you would read too much into it. Trying to make fun of Lott bud. No worries. Good showing in Alberta by the way. Still going to st louis? |
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I might have swept if it was on Tornado |
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There's a guy on the boards who is trashing the warrior table, Name is "tablenazi." He's getting absolutely no support on his thread, maybe help him out Fred? Jeff?  |
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I could get a hundred people to help him out. Nobody cares about Warrior except for 20 guys who live and die by the IFP (cause they are paid to for the most part) and post everything they can about it. Tornado, on the contrary, has one active employee on the board. |
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My post from that American board ... "If i were rich, i'd be willing to bet a million dollars that if you held an all newbie tourney on those 3 man goalie tables that don't allow the full complement of shots from the get go ... you are destined to be doomed. Translated this means more newbies who play on a table that doesn't allow none skilled goals to go in ( 3-man goalie = too many non skilled shots going in ) and allows them to perform any kind of shot they tried i.e banks - pins front and back - pulls - pushes - rollovers ... you are destined for success. On the other hand quality is of the utmost importance ... if the table that limits your skill set never breaks down but the one that allows your skills to shine threw always broke ... the answer then becomes obvious in itself. Folks, i have tried the fireball table and it was like going from the Flintstones mobile to the Jetson's space car ... the future is here." ~VanBackPin |
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Dave, Warrior plays well but falls apart and has an owner who I hear has a very well known "lifestyle choice" (dont want to get sued) that affects his business capabilities. He had had ample opportunity with help from some very knowlegdeable people to fix those longevity and reliability problems. Despite, I am guessing here, 5 to 1 negativity with regard to feedback on the solid rod, he will not change, and he thinks that he can just throw money at any problem and he will solve it. If he did not join up with Mary he would have remained insignificant in the big picture which is where he is returning to once again now that they are on their way out and the recession is hurting his cash flow. Mary has asked for a huge whack of money from him apparently because she has realized that he needs her a lot more than she needs him if he does not fix the table issues or make a coin op. Brendan apparently is a very rich guy who is a marketing wiz but it seems to me he is either unwilling or unable to put the time and effort into fixing what is wrong and will not empower those people that he has available to him to fix things. His price point on table costs is something like $150 per table. He was told by a good table manufacturer that he could deliver a table with same or better playabilty, better longevity and reliability and with stronger hollow rods for around $225 and he said no. I really like playing on Warrior but would never buy one in it's current design and am not able to play on a coin op because none exists. Even if one did exist it would quickly either be beaten up and less playable or else would be not very cost effective for the owner operator to maintain. As far s Warrior is concerned, unless he pays Mary and fixes his table, you can stick a fork in it, because this dinner is done! My previous comment as to it being a shitty table was just meant as short hand for this. Not very accurate on my part. I think it is really cool that many great players like you, Craig, and Sluggo to name a few, like to play on it and do well on it. But to others, the IFP tour was in a city too far away on a table that needed improvement and wasn't getting it and the biggest reasons for going was because their ranking was reset and they could win a lot of money from a rich guy with money to burn. Fireball is a much better table but still nowhere near perfect. Tornado was improved as of last year when you and I bought our tables, but this years version with hole placement and under table supporters being too high are big problems for it. Foosball once again is caught in a vortex. Hope it gets out soon. Call you soon. Fred Jeff, any thoughts here? |
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I think you hit it on the head. I look forward to seeing what happens with Fireball, some of my friends are already talking about the US Open. |
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First of all Warriors do not "fall apart", unless you care to clarify, If you are referring to the rod coming out. In tournament play I have seen this happen less than 10 times. And no he wouldn't put hollow rods, he decided it would be too expensive, maybe his table goal wasn't entirely for a tournament table, and knowing the actual details on this it wasn't about the cost difference, it was about replacing the rods on all the current tables, that isn't an insignificant amount. Mary and a lot of foosball players got a whack of money from him, no matter how nice a table is people will only go if there is money. "I really like playing on Warrior but would never buy one in it's current design and am not able to play on a coin op because none exists. Even if one did exist it would quickly either be beaten up and less playable or else would be not very cost effective for the owner operator to maintain." I have never seen a man or pin break, what is the required maintenance sorry? |
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" no matter how nice a table is people will only go if there is money." We all know this to be true about you Craig ... so speak for yourself in this regard. On the other hand ... no matter how crappy a table is ... people will go if there is enough money. "If you are referring to the rod coming out. In tournament play I have seen this happen less than 10 times." LMAO ... so maybe 9 times lol. Has it ever happened to you? You'd love the fireball table Craig ... hope you get a chance to try one out sometime. |
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I wasn't done with posting and clicked the wrong button so just continue from here. Additionally if you look at pre-tournament posts about warrior it was a great table. I as I'm sure everyone else on here knows as you have posted that you are involved in the fireball table, and you see this as an opportunity to jump all over someone who put a lot of money into running a lot of tournaments, including sponsoring a large number of players on free trips. Is fireball planning to guarantee $335,000 in payouts in the first year of existence? I would understand your posts if you had actually played in a warrior tournament, but I'm pretty sure you haven't(correct me if I'm wrong), if not you are simply using this to promote your table which is fine, but no need to bash warrior. I wish fireball all the success and hope it succeeds, and it doesn't bother me that warrior has failed, but seeing as how you have no promoter for a tour its going to be quite the challenge to get a tournament actually up and running. |
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Craig, I think that I owe you an apology. So I am sorry if my comments upset you. Your success in Warrior should be congratulated. I was not directing them at you but of course you would find it upsetting since you have spent a lot of time focusing on playing on the Warrior table. So sorry about that Craig. I am not involved with Fireball at all beyond selling them and playing them in the Shanghai area. I do think it is a good but not yet a great table. The biggest advantage is the fact that the owner of the table actually makes tables and has a continual improvement cycle in his plans. Brendan's advantage is he is a real player and he has or at least "had" a lot of money to throw at this. Each has their weaknesses too. I don't think that Brendan ever addressed his but he jury is still out on if Dennis will or not. I talked about the Fireball online because it was a story that deserved to be told and I have somehow become this traveling foosball reporter. So I told what I thought the table was like. Now had I been asked to be involved of the sales or marketing of them in North America I probably would have done so but not totally sure. You are right I have not played in a Warrior tournament so sure, a lot of what I said is here-say. But, that in itself does not make it incorrect. And it is backed up repeatedly by many others online with much more experience than me on the table and in what others have told me about it. TS guaranteed money with smoke and mirrors and failed. Warrior guaranteed money with smoke and mirrors and probably is going to fail. You are right about my exaggerated comments about calling the table "crap" or whatever I said which is why I took the time to repost. It is also why I congratulated you on the other post. I am not bashing Warrior players or the Warrior tour, I am bashing manufacturers who try to sell tables that do not last or players that jump on a new table bandwagon, especially if it just about money, which your post leads me to believe is one of your major criteria. So in this regard i guess that I would advise anyone to also be careful how deep they get involved in the Fireball tour in the future as well if it comes about. "Fall apart" may also have be an exaggeration on my part. But even Mary and Brendan have talked badly about the table quality issues. If they had made annual improvements or in taken the advice of Johnny Lott or Mark Murrell who did complete improvement planning and re-design but were ignored, then I would have forgiven them. But, you are kidding yourself if you think this is a complete and good table as far as longevity and reliability goes or if you think fixing this issue was high on Brendan's agenda. If you disagree on this point despite TONS of contrary opinions, then there is nothing else I can say on it. I think general public opinion is on my side on this. If when you say "you" have no promoter, you really mean Dennis (I guess I am supposed to be his lackey), the truth is that almost everyone of any import in the States is lining up to be involved with Fireball. Mary though is not one of them although she does like the table. The best thing she said about her table was "the ball". That says quite a bit don't you think? Anyway, again I am sorry if you took these things personally which in re-reading I think I can see why you might have. If warrior does in fact fail I take no delight in that. If fireball goes ahead I hope that we can learn something about getting on board there too. Big foosball paydays without some logic behind it is very scary to me in terms of what it will do for the sport. Watch "FoosMovie - Be the Greatest" for another view of this. Anyway Craig, great playing and sorry if I offended you. Fred |
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You people are obviously blind ... include anyone who's posted on this thread ... |
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Okay, i really seriously gotta cut back on the booze ... this isn't good . |
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WARRIOR OUT OF BUSINESS!!! YEY!!! BIGGEST PIECE OF CRAP EVER SEEN. I SEEN BAR COME OUT ON A BRUSH PASS 10 TIMES IN A SMALL TOURNAMENT.. GARBAGE!!! |
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Playing on Warrior may also affect your use of the CAPS LOCK KEY!!!! |
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Thought I would update, almost every tournament this year is back on Tornado. Warrior is gone after the U.S. Open http://www.foosball.com/schedule/ 40K on July 1st in St.Louis is on Tornado too. |
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I wonder how the Tornado roofing problem is coming along? Anyone hear anything? My guess is not much has changed in how they are building them. Too bad because the rest of the table is pretty nice these days... |
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At the US Open I talked to Mary, and she is pumped about dissolving the contract between herself and Brendan. I think running tournaments on Tornado is going to be great for her turnout. I also talked to Brendan and Evan Stachelek and they said they have a new prototype shipping soon and they plan on running a tour (not ifp) next year on a coin table. I know they have "talked" a lot and not delivered, so don't count on much, but at least it would be cool to see three tours next year if it comes true. Brendan did say he wouldn't focus as much on the pro players and try to focus on selling tables to home game room type players more. Probably where that table belongs anyway - but I do think it is fun playing on Warrior still. I pulled the 5 bar out 4 times at the us open and I have seen christian pull out 2 bars every time he does a long pull.... The rods need to be longer. Can't wait to see a fireball |
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