 |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Calgary & Edmonton & Vancouver
| Topic: 1985 Calgary Open Results |
| ||
|
Check out my stylish hat and Joey's hair  |
Posted: Aug 2 2010 8:04PM
| ||
|
That is the same picture as in the Foosball Almanac! Brian looks so cool leaning on the wall in the back of the picture on the right. Other than that the only thing I am getting from this is that Carey is a lock to win Friday night DYP's. Bump. |
| ||
|
What about the moustaches???...lol That was a Dynamo event if I remember. Carey played back then??? Doug cleaned up-3 1sts and 3 2nds! You played with Chopper?? Oh the memories! |
| ||
|
I am curious as to why garry and I didn't also win open doubles?Must have shown up late or had to leave early.Clearly,there isn't any other plausible explanation.  |
| ||
|
lol If I remember we lost to Doug & Sanj in winners bracket- then lost to Simon & Wilson in losers. We did however make amends by beating Doug & Sanj twice in Novice-don't think we played Simon & Chopper in Novice. |
| ||
|
"That is the same picture as in the Foosball Almanac!" The one on the right is the same. The picture on the left should have been the one put in the book. |
| ||
|
Who is Doug Campbell? Where is Doug McCarthy now? What about Sanj? We should see if we can have a "retro doubles" tournament, I would show up just to watch. Especially on an old table... Did everyone shoot the same shots then as they do now? Somehow none of you shoot a roller primarily so you could all be shooting the same shots for all I know... |
| ||
|
I did not think that this got into the Foosball Almanac, lol... I remember this tournament somewhat, Doug Campbell I believe shot a Pull-kick. Simon did talk about a tourny he played in at Calgary back during the 80's while we were headed to the Calgary June 2010 Open. We both mentioned Kathy Brainard in a Calgary Tourny. I think I only played in the D.Y.P Simon was this the Dynamo Tourny ? |
| ||
|
Yes this was on dynamo. |
| ||
|
Doug Campbell may of shot a push-kick instead of pull-kick. I do recall him switching his main shot to another during a match. |
| ||
|
"Did every shoot the same shots then as they do now?" In fact,I am certain all players in those photos do shoot the same shots now as they did then,at least those who are still playing.This is for a simple reason:the most skilled players,the players who exhibit the most natural talent,also happen to be foosball purists. For example,spinning the bar,irrespective of which one,not only constituted an infraction but was considered to be symptomatic of a lesser player(an amateur or a beginner).Moreover,of the player's who utilize this abomination,the rollover,now,none of them would achieve either the percentages or the number of wins with out it.A partial list of some the best goalies and forwards to ever play would substantiate this fact:Todd loffredo,tony bacon,dave gummeson,fredrico collignon,gary burghardt(sp?). The simple fact is,the rollover,in my view at least,is a sure sign of a devolution of this great game we all play.And yes,I get that because of this so-called shot,the sport has many players it wouldn't otherwise have.Even so,and to reiterate my previous point,this shot helps lesser players achieve results they could not otherwise achieve,helping them tobeat far more skilled players.Don't agree?All those who use a rollover as their primary shot,discontinue using it and see how you fair. |
| ||
|
"Did every shoot the same shots then as they do now?" In fact,I am certain all players in those photos do shoot the same shots now as they did then,at least those who are still playing.This is for a simple reason:the most skilled players,the players who exhibit the most natural talent,also happen to be foosball purists. For example,spinning the bar,irrespective of which one,not only constituted an infraction but was considered to be symptomatic of a lesser player(an amateur or a beginner).Moreover,of the player's who utilize this abomination,the rollover,now,none of them would achieve either the percentages or the number of wins with out it.A partial list of some the best goalies and forwards to ever play would substantiate this fact:Todd loffredo,tony bacon,dave gummeson,fredrico collignon,gary burghardt(sp?). The simple fact is,the rollover,in my view at least,is a sure sign of a devolution of this great game we all play.And yes,I get that because of this so-called shot,the sport has many players it wouldn't otherwise have.Even so,and to reiterate my previous point,this shot helps lesser players achieve results they could not otherwise achieve,helping them tobeat far more skilled players.Don't agree?All those who use a rollover as their primary shot,discontinue using it and see how you fair. |
| ||
|
Lol So Joey...exactly what is you opinion on the rollover??? Why in God's name am I on that list "Todd loffredo,tony bacon,dave gummeson,fredrico collignon,gary burghardt(sp?). " There are plusses and minuses with the rollover- Yes you are correct in that less talented players do have a greater chance by using it against a "more skilled" opponent, but that is a plus believe it or not. If I were coming into foos like some of the newer players and saw that it took years to get good(let alone master) a shot to be competitive-most players would not commit themselves as needed, Now along comes the rollover... basically a simple shot(however there is still a level of mastery even with it) that you can be competitive with in alot shorter amount of time. If these new players didn't have the time to commit to an older shot- there would be nobody to play against, other than us dinosaurs. |
| ||
|
Pull Shot took 1st, 2nd and 3rd at the Washington State Open in Open Singles Roller took 1st and 2nd in Open Doubles and a push kick took 3rd. So its not like the roller dominates but I agree with Joey, some of the players might only win because they learned a rollover. |
| ||
|
Yeah...... Whatever would Terry Moore, Tony Spredeman and Billy Pappas ever do without the rollover? After all, that's what wins there titles for them  . |
| ||
|
I'm not sure,is Todd in agreement with me or not?In any event,I would like to speak to garry's questioning of including him in my list of great players,past and present.First,if my memory serves me,and I believe Garry reminded me of this in the not to distant past(and if this could be documented,I would appreciate it),in 1985,when these photos were taken,my partner,Garry ,and I went down to Ft.Worth,Texas and played in the worlds.I did particularly well that year as well as the year before.This was for a few reasons but mainly because of my partner and the people I grew up playing,in particular garry,douglas,sanj,brian,kent,and simon(who remarkably continues to improve his game).Also in Ft.worth that same year,and more importantly,garry and I(and this is where my memory is uncertain)won the warm up tournament,beating out Tony bacon(by far the best pull shot and farside-five bar passing series I have ever seen)and Don chalifoux,then the best open doubles team in the world.If this is in fact true,this result is almost wholly due to garry's mental toughness and to his ability to concentrate in the most intense parts of a match.And,if this is true,has there ever been another canadian team who has achieved these results?Maybe there has been,I really don't know, but I'm fairly certain that there wasn't a canadian team who did it before us.I know better now than I did before that goalies,not unlike in hockey,win championships.I have so much admiration for the great goalies(Ivor demello,among them).I didn't fully appreciate just how much energy and concentration that the goalie has to have at all times during a match until I played my first tournament as a goalie-last year!What an unbelievably difficult position to play,match after match.Keep foosin'everyone. |
| ||
|
this is a ridiculous post really. things change, change or fade. it's that simple. just because you don't shoot a pullshot or any other doesn't make you any more / less "purist" RETARDED. i'll agree that aesthetically, a pullshot is prettier to watch. but i'd take RICO / TODD over ANY other doubles teams past or present based on one thing. RESULTS. Consistent results. CHAMPIONSHIPS. someone isn't any "lesser" a player because they chose to learn an easier shot and try to perfect it - in fact, if you ask me, they choose the path of least resistance. work smarter, not harder. it's pretty easy having shot both shots (pull and roller)to say that. THAT WAS THEN THIS IS NOW. YESTERDAY'S WORLD CHAMPS CAN LOSE TO 15 YR OLDS NOW. No slight to my friends Garry / Ivor, but we're not even close to the cream of the crop... and i'm sure they know it too. you'd only see that on tour. if you're NOT touring, you haven't a CLUE. who cares what shot you use? it's not how you LOOKED when you played the game, but what you WON and how you'll be remembered for your contribution. lets face it, terry moory is not going to last a whole tourney shooting a pull. neither is Ang. but it doesn't make them any less PURE. |
| ||
|
I'm with Todd here, the cream will rise to the top independent of the shot selection. If anyone has seen Billy, Ryan, Tommy, Brandon, Atha hit the pull or Spree hit his push, it's obvious that the best players are going to make their way to the top. There's so much more than a players three row that goes into making a great player. On top of all this it should be mentioned that the most dominant player in the game shoots a euro, not a roller. |
| ||
|
Well the most obvious comment that hasn't been stated yet is Edmonton kicked Ass in that tournament. Doug, Joey, Garry, Wilson, Sanj and Myself were all living in Edmonton during the time of this tournament. And the fact that we have won squat since doesn't matter. On May 3rd thru 5th, 1985 Edmonton owned Calgary!! |
| ||
|
The most recent "retro doubles" tournament that was played was at the US Open. Tony Spredeman won shooting a pull shot. Joey is right about most of it. I wouldn't have ever been this addicted to the game if it wasn't for the lure of a snake shot. I had seen people drag the ball and push it towards the net, given not at the speed of a pro's pull shot, but still the same idea. I had never seen a roller before, once I did, i was hooked. Snake shots are awesome. Either way he is right... it does not take as much time to learn a roller that can win games than a pull that can win games. Tony is also right, Christain and I won 3 strait against Rick Martin and his partner, they had both won open doubles at worlds. It really was our easiest game of Open doubles. While I have all the respect in the world for Rick and his world championship he does not know how to win today like he used to - not learning a roller is part of that downfall. Adapt or get crushed - not saying you cant win shooting other shots but it is harder to do that. |
| ||
|
I can teach someone a basic (competent) uphill/downhill series in the same amount of time it takes to learn a basic roller. Do we look down on that as well because it's easy? Some pro golfers use perimeter weighted clubs (more forgiving, easier to hit) and some still use muscle back blades. Do you see the guys using blades complaining about the guys using perimeter weighted clubs? No? It's just one aspect of the game. |
| ||
|
Please add a Edit or Delete thread to this board. Thanks! |
| ||
|
I like Joey's grammar/punctuation/etc., or lack thereof. I love how Tony copied Joey. |
| ||
|
Mentas & Vern on the back table on the left. |
| ||
|
Hey! this post was supposed to be about my hat and Joey's hair. |
| ||
|
You can't really judge a player on one match. I would give Rick Martin 8 games out of 10 against you guys. He knows how to win today better than almost anyone in that room. |
| ||
|
The seven games Will played Rick in, 3 in Doubles and 4 in singles (I think it went 4 games) Will won 6 of them. It looked to me that Rick had a hard time keeping up to Will and was a little behind the play. Rick is a great player but I doubt he would win 8 out of 10. I think Christian beat Rick in the DYP as well. It might be a diffrent story on Tornado. will and Christian addapted really quickly to the fireball unlike some. |
| ||
|
ahh, nothing like 'who'll beat who' shit hijacking a thread. Thank god for the internet. On the other topic, Simon, this thread has always been about your mustache, and Joey's hair. |
| ||
|
Don't forget about Garry's and Joey's mustache, but I did have the best hat. I kinda wish I still had it. It was an original Delton Foos Hat that Doug McCarthy had made up. |
| ||
|
More about my unbelievable hair later.I have been remiss.Firstly,I would like to congratulate my compatriots for the clinic they put on in Washington state,proving once again how capable Canadian ,and in particular, Alberta foosballers can be.It's alot fun to stick it to the americans.You guys did something special down there,don't let anybody tell you any different.And Simon,you stand corrected,you have one something again!!!Truly well done fellas.Moreover,and as to the effeminate roller shot,nothing personal of course,most people seem to be missing my point.Simply put,in order for the roller to become a shot, the rules had to be changed,altered so that those complex shots,i.e.the pull shot,push kick and pull kick,which all require more ball handling,a better understanding of timing,and,lastly,PRACTICE(!),did not have to be learned.The great players are able to shoot multiple shots,but almost always relying on their primary shot,which,more and more,is the roller.It just doesn't sit well with me that the rules of the game had to be changed for this shot to come about,which,in my view,calls into question the integrity of the game. |
| ||
|
If we played 23 more games and I lost all of them then Jeff would be right about 8 for 10... Thanks Joey. This thread is sweet. |
| ||
|
"This thread is sweet" cuz it's got a moist, creamy center.... |
| ||
|
Not that I don't appreciate the accolades, but Joey and I knocked the current and soon to be again World champs into the losers bracket of a 32 team Worlds Warmup tourney(Bacon & Chalifoux) into the losers bracket...then they came through and double dipped us in the finals. Still a good showing. Joey does remember it differently than I do though. Although I played well, when it came to those matches it was Joey's game outperforming Bacon's. He out 5'd him, but the difference was Joey shooting on a World Champ and Tony shooting on me...that's why THEY won. That is also the tourney where Wilson got ID'd-he was in his mid/late twenties and didn't have any ID-he wasn't allowed in. Joey & I weren't even 20 and were allowed in(21 is legal in Texas)...lol |
| ||
|
"Tony bacon(by far the best pull shot and farside-five bar passing series I have ever seen)" His 5 was the best and at it's prime was probably still one of the best near or far side-of all time...notwithstanding Spree-he's not human, doesn't count! His pull was one of the best of his time- probably not top 3 today though(even though he ripped me, but really how hard is that) Tony, No offense taken-other that a little bit...grouping me with Ivor j/k |
| ||
|
"Delton Foos Hat that Doug McCarthy had made up." Did it have Mcdonald's ketchup/french fry stains on it from Pam...too funny!! DUCK!!!!! |
| ||
|
I might as well get my 2 cents worth, i played from from 75 - 81 then didnt play in a tourny until 86,and in 1987, where Doug M and I won the dyp and me and Rick Bergoron got second in open doubles.losing to darren olsen and carey luft, I actually played for fun until 1986 at my first tourny. Had i known there was a tourny in 85, i would of played!too busy playing hockey i guess As far as im concerned, The Roll Over "Saved" Foosball! It takes too long to develope a pull that can score and backpins were eliminated when Tornado decided to make changes to acomodate the rollover. |
| ||
|
"That is also the tourney where Wilson got ID'd-he was in his mid/late twenties and didn't have any ID-he wasn't allowed in. Joey & I weren't even 20 and were allowed in(21 is legal in Texas)...lol" That's because Wilson was the only one without a moustache |
| ||
|
"Did it have Mcdonald's ketchup/french fry stains on it from Pam...too funny!!" yeah that was pretty funny seeing Doug come back from lunch covered in ketchup! |
| ||
|
Where the hell is Dudra's cynical and sarcastic comments on this multiple topic thread? |
| ||
|
I can't remember exactly but was this the tourny I was on my way to when Brian Langs' car overheated in Red Deer (in the 40's), and we had to wait around for about 5 hours till it cooled down enough to turn around and go home. What a bummer, I was playing not bad, working in Aladdens, the arcade at west ed, and. After TS crashed it was one of the only places in the world where foos was still hot, being half a block from the indoor rollercoaster, 6 tables in a row with the rug worn out under the first two. What a blast. About snakes, it's easy to score 40% with one but if you go up agianst a pull shooter who's hitting 65%, well you're going to have to match that and that isn't so easy. That's why not everyone shoots a snake. And I've seen guys learn wicked pulls pritty fast too. I sometimes rest my finger on the metal during the shot and let the bar spinn freely for a second but it's not a spinn shot. I am in compleat control of the bar and the ball the entire time. I don't know of any rule changes that had to be made to allow the shot, wasn't it always 360 before or after to be a spin? What I like about the snake is that now 90% of the forwards arn't shooting 14 second pulls. That was boring to watch or play agianst. That's why I like Fireball, back pins and banks make more variety, more intresting to play and watch. |
| ||
|
Any game changes it's rules to improve (minus soccer, probably why it's so boring....) and evolve. In hockey you couldn't pass over 2 lines, offsides were automatic, etc. Football you couldn't challenge calls, horsecollar like tackles were legal, roughing the QB now illegal, etc. You can go on and on. Could you imagine watching foos with 99% of the players shooting the same shot? Without the rollover it would be a pullshot-athon! Now that would be boring.... |
| ||
|
This argument about the rollover and the rules has been going on since at least 1996. Original Post From Terry Moore July 26, 1996 Alright, I have to say something to this post. First of all, I'm tired of all the whinning about this subject. You would not believe all the cry babies I've had to listen to over the past 3 years, about how the rollover should be illegal. Ever since I won my first Open Doubles back in '92, all I've heard is negative shit about the rollover, and how it should be illegal. It sure is funny that I was shooting the shot on tour in '89 and no one ever said anything about it until I started winning. John Smith had been known to shoot the shot on ocassion years before I did. In fact I distinctly remember him shooting it on Loffredo in the finals of Open Singles in '90 or '91 Worlds. I didn't here anyone saying it should be illegal then. I honestly think that if no one had ever won with a rollover, that no one would have a problem with it being legal or not. Next, as far as Todd saying I only win because of my shot. Well You can believe what you want, because you're going to anyway. But, how far do you think Todd would get if he had a pull shot like Murray's? If Murray has a hard time winning with his 5 row offense (which I think is very impressive) I can't imagin how far Todd would get with his 5 row. If Todd thinks that my shot is the reason that I'm winning, then how do I ever get the ball to shoot my shot. I'm sorry if I sound pissed off, but I am. I take pride in my game and what I've accomplished, and it bothers me when someone comes along and tells me that I'm only winning because I shoot a rollover. It's not like I just started shooting a rollover and started winning. It took me between 3 and 4 years to perfect just the excecution of the shot the way I shoot it, and then another 2 years on tour to learn how to shoot it on defences and how to time holes in defences, which I still am trying to perfect. So the way I see it I've got at least 5 years of practice and training behind the shot to get it where it is today. I had to learn a 5-row and a 2-row. I've put so much time into my 5-row it's disgusting. When I was first stating to play foosball, all I did was eat, sleep and drink foosball. I lost every job I ever had because of foosball. I was "fortunte" to of had a motorcycle accident when I started playing on tour, and received a rather large settlement on which I supported my foos addiction. I used to practice 8-10 hours a day for months. I went to every tournament that I could. Believe me I've payed my dues. And I'm tired of hearing many the older tour pros saying that the shot is undiscipled, and how it took them years to learn how to shoot a pull shot or some other conventional shot. And that anyone can learn a rollover in a few months. I will agree that a person may be able to be more competitive on the 3-row in less time than it may take to reach the same level with other shots, BUT, in order to execute a rollover and be able to read defences with a rollover as good as Louis, Mares, or myself, it takes years of practice and tournament time. Just the same as it does with any other shot. I also like say that I can't believe what Biene said about the sport heading in the wrong direction due to the rollover. Well Steve, is the wrong direction up? Because there is no denying that the sport is definately on a positive up swing. And I personally believe it is largely related to the growth in popularity of the rollover. And that is what we all want, isn't it? Growth? I don't see why people can't just except it as a competitive shot and adjust the rules, if they truely do need to be adjusted, so that there aren't any more problems for people to whine about. It seems to me that there are many, many more problems in the sport to solve, like having a true players organization or getting a corparate sponser, than to try and illagalize a shot which is infinately helping to sport to gro |
| ||
|
"wasn't it always 360 before or after to be a spin?" No it used to be illegal if the bar spun 360 degrees total, this rule was modified to allow the rollover in the late 80's I believe. Rule changes in any sport are done to improve the game usually to increase enjoyment for spectators, who usually pay to watch-and in turn pay the athlete. This equation doesn't work for foos though. |
| ||
|
Rule changes, in sports, are typically geared towards the safety of the players and to allow for the evolution of the game. The only reason I can see that the community wouldn't want a roller to be legal is to maintain the gap between the really good players and the really bad players, ie they want to stunt the growth of the game and the players in it to keep themselves on top. Those are the players that need to realize that this sport needs new players, not only to expand the player base, but to challenge the veterans to keep working on their game. If a newer player beat you, it wasn't because of the roller, it's because you haven't been practicing. |
| ||
|
As I knew it would be,todd loffredo's opinion on this amateur shot is almost identical to mine,saying precisely what I believe of terry more and his ilk.He would not have won matches without spinning! And I understand how someone like terrymore would gravitate towards a shot like a roller,a man in peak physical condition,not unlike his compatriot tommy adkinson(sp?),always setting forth the most discipline and diligence in life. Moreover,as to "I can't imagine how far todd[lofredo] would get with his five row".This slothful sack of shit cannot be serious!!!Loffredo has won at least 25 worldchampionships!Of course loffredo doesn't have respect for moore's game,what self respecting player would.Kudos to loffredo for his prescient comments reflecting my own. |
| ||
|
Sorry, I am totally wrong. Apologies. Will Stranks is a much better player then Rick Martin. How stupid of me. I will retire from the greatness that is present on this thread. |
| ||
|
Will was better on the day of the tournament - no need to be a dick about it. |
| ||
|
I believe they call that 'sarcasm in the absence of fact' throughout the legal profession, Simon. |
| ||
|
"It's not the shot that wins, it's the application of the shot". Todd Loffredo (I bet Fredricco dosn't complain about the rollover,  ) |
| ||
|
I look forward to playing the formidable greatness that is Red pepper.He talks a good game,I wonder how he actually plays it. |
| ||
|
that's a good post from terry moore simon. way to go shit disturber! haha. jeff, the rick martin comment, was that geared on fireball 8 out of 10? i'd take that bet :p on any table against him. |
| ||
|
I didn't realize the rest of Terry Moores post was cut off Here is the entire thread http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.table-soccer/browse_thread/thread/772247bfd78fee11/87fb7cd7ff173571?lnk=gst&q=addendum+to+the+rules#87fb7cd7ff173571 click on the expand all to see all of the thread |
| ||
|
"Sorry, I am totally wrong. Apologies. Will Stranks is a much better player then Rick Martin. How stupid of me. I will retire from the greatness that is present on this thread." I thought for a while you would just argue that I suck for no apparent reason. Thanks for understanding.  |
| ||
|
If one does click on the thread that Simon is pointing out,one will see comment after comment on the then illegality of "the spin shot",and specifically on how it was a violation of rule 18.4.The contempt for this shot was evident from its inception,but don't worry roller shooters,your shot will never be made illegal again,thus making the game too challenging.Perhaps we will have one man passes on the five-bar next,which would make the game easier for you too.But seriously,if this is the only way roller shooters can win matches, then what does that say about their game? |
| ||
|
I would assume that Loffredo has accepted the fact that rollovers are here to stay and that the diffrences of opinion he had with Moore are long forgotten. After all they did go into business together. |
| ||
|
Joey, that's like saying hockey players are bad at what they do because they use carbon fiber sticks now, which used to be illegal, instead of wooden sticks. The only way Crosby can score is with his carbon fiber, what a new-school player! Get with the times man, as with anyone who thinks the roller makes the game too easy. 90% of games are won on the 5-bar anyway, get over it. |
| ||
|
Simon what type of Shots did the Amateurs top finishers use in both Singles & Doubles in the Washington Open? |
| ||
|
Any goalie worth his salt can stop a simple amateur rollover. In and of itself a basic rollover is not going to make you a champion. "[Terry Moore] would not have won matches without spinning! And I understand how someone like terrymore would gravitate towards a shot like a roller blah blah blah" It goes both ways, if Terry Moore only won because of the rollover then his opponents only lost because of their weak rollover defense. I think the latter is more telling... The first time I ever played Will in a tournament all he did was 5 bar hack me, I think he scored every one of his goals like that. I stubbornly never made a single adjustment to my defense, and so he knocked me out of the chart. So should I bitch and whine because he could ONLY beat me because of his 5 bar hack? Or should grow some balls and fine tune my defense? |
| ||
|
In singles I faced one pull and one push and the rest were rollovers. The pull and push shooters were 50 and 48. The rollover shooters were young kids under 20. Robbie, the the young man I played in the final was only 15. In amatuer doubles it was pretty much the same story except for the finals. We played some cocky guy who thinks he's better than Rick Martin and his stoner goalie . The forward as you know shoots a rollover. He started out shooting a pull when he first started playing foos (about 3 years ago) but found his way to win was with a roller. He also won open doubles. |
| ||
|
Simon when you state one pull shooter you mean a Pull shot not a Pull kick and Push shot = (like Roger P. ) not Push-kick ? The players 50 and 48 in Amateur were Mike Veit ..yes?? can you remember who shot what .... curious. thanks. |
| ||
|
Mike Veit only shot a pull shot on me. He was at least 50 because he played in the senior events. Bob Cassity shot a push like Rogers. He also shot a pull kick. Both were lightning fast and long. |
| ||
|
You'll have to pardon me when I say I have no idea who you are(C.A.L.,Ted,Darcy)as I respond to your brilliant but irrelevant retorts.First,as to C.A.L.'s point(carbon fiber to wood).My point has nothing to do with equipment(i.e.gloves,wraps,etc.)or even tables for that matter.IT has to do ,firstly,with changing the game in a fundamental way,a way in which is detrimental to the sport.It requires infinitely less skill and practice and talent to not only learn the rollover but to become proficient at it.And,please don't miss understand me.I enjoy blocking rollovers as is evidenced by being a part of the second highest placing Canadian team at last years nationals;that was with having hand surgery 4 days before that tournament.So it isn't that rollovers are troublesome for me.My point,again(!),is that a player,whose primary shot is a rollover,will achieve,irrespective of his skill level,far greater results than he would if he had a different primary shot.Now,as to Ted's point"any goalie worth his salt".If this comment is directed at me and my talent versus yours,next time you are in Calgary,bring your wallet full of money and it will leave in a different way.And as to your second brilliant point of Will humiliating you with his skillful application of the 5-bar.Shooting from the 5-bar has never been illegal,was never considered to be a move typically associated when someone first encounters a foostable in their life.,spinning the bars aimlessly,trying to advance the ball.The rollover is only one order of magnitude removed from this.I hope this doesn't offend your delicate sensibilities. |
| ||
|
C.A.L. seems to take one on the chin here and he had nothing to do with a post about Carbon Fibre. |
| ||
|
So Joey, couple questions for you as I don't understand your argument. What's detrimental here? What if all these players had different shots (as there primary) Would Rico win shooting a pull? Would Rico win shooting a rollover? Would Loffredo win shooting a rollover? Would Tony win with a pull? Would Moore (Terry & Ryan) win shooting a pull? Good players I think will win regardless of their shot, they win cause they are good players that have the desire and talent to be the best at all aspects of the game. Anyhooo.... Hope to get back out soon! |
| ||
|
Firstly, you don't need to know who I am, but you should try to understand my, our, point of view instead of digging your heels in the sand and ignoring what we, roller advocates, are saying. My post in regards to how carbon fiber sticks were introduced to the NHL was not one of inventory, but one of forced evolution. The game's officials saw a way to make shots harder, passes crisper and athlete's more comfortable, so it adapted, it changed to accommodate the players and in doing so, better served the interests of all involved. The roller is no different. Newer players are drawn to it because it's easier to learn than a good pull, no denying that. But it's not 1985 any more, there are video games, colour TV, and people don't hang out in arcades any more. There are other forms of entertainment that take alot of potential foose players away from the talent pool. I've been playing for just under a year now and already I feel like I'm challenging some of the better players around me to get better. I can't tell you how many new school players want to sit around for five years before they have that feeling, but I'm going to guess it's an eerily low number. If you want to play the same 15 guys every time you go to a Calgary tournament that's just fine by me, but if you actually want to have your game challenged and keep things fresh, things need to change every once in a while to allow for the natural progression of the player and the game. I'd recommend, if I were you, seriously considering naming your right hand "roller" and making love to it every night out of respect for what a wonderful job it's done keeping the game you've dedicated your life to alive. |
| ||
|
Settle down Joe, nobody said anything about your abilities. You're reading WAY too much into this. |
| ||
|
Eric, Joey feels challenged all the time. You're not going to be able to do anything about it. Some people use the internet to lash out at anything and everything in an attempt to minimize self loathing. The problem with that is there's no rhyme or reason to his typing. It's like reading Homey or Phil Kennedy's posts. Useless banter. And Melonhead..I didn't even use spellcheck.. |
| ||
|
You, have-to, admit. Nathan's,post was; pretty!funny and yet quite accurate. |
| ||
|
I could be wrong, but I don't believe for a minute that there ever were any rules in place to discourage rollovers. The 'hand grasping' thing has something to do with distractions, and the anti-spin stuff is self evident, the stopping of something that has nothing to do with ball control. Distractions and reckless spinning is what they wanted to stop, not rollers so when the rollers came along they had to clean up the rules. I think a good rollover incorporates a great deal of ball control, timing, all that good stuff. Many players have a knack for them and learn them quickly. Other people can't shoot them at all. Some people have a knack for pulls and can develop a really wicked one on short order, but all this talk of spending years to get a decent one is absolute B.S. Improvement is possable but no amount of time will turn a P.O.S. pull into anything good. The great thing about rollovers is that the day no longer belongs to the best pull, or the best rollover. It belongs to the best player, the real deal, 5-D, smart 2-bar, everything. With everyone and their dog having a 3-bar, every possesion becomes all that much more critical, no room for errors. The rollover has elevated the game. What I'd like to see (and hope Fireball delivers) is a little smaller goals to lower the 3-bar percentages a bit, and real 2-bar banks and back pins because 2-5 passing is boreing and in my opinion a step backwards for the game. It's sad to see 2-5, 5-3, rollover when compared to watching somebody really open it up from the 2-bar. |
| ||
|
"Now,as to Ted's point"any goalie worth his salt".If this comment is directed at me and my talent versus yours,next time you are in Calgary..." LMAO! I wasn't referring to you I was referring to the prototypical goalie. I think you're a great player, and you've stopped my rollover before. "And as to your second brilliant point of Will humiliating you with his skillful application of the 5-bar.Shooting from the 5-bar has never been illegal,was never considered to be a move typically associated when someone first encounters a foostable in their life.,spinning the bars aimlessly,trying to advance the ball.The rollover is only one order of magnitude removed from this." Fair enough, but when Moore was winning titles with the rollover it was considered legal, n'est pas? So it can't be argued that an illegal shot was the only reason why he won, it can only be argued that a poor opposing defense is why he won. "I hope this doesn't offend your delicate sensibilities." Nope. |
| ||
|
You'll have to pardon me,Ted,I can get a little carried away when playing or even discussing this game.If I offended you in any way,please accept my apologies.That being said,I would like to touch on "when moore was winning titles" just a bit.Again,the roller,during the early to mid-nineties,when Moore found some success,was in contravention of rule 18.4.Nonetheless,and for whatever reason,the governing body did not enforce the rule which they instituted.Partly no doubt because of the avalanche of players which accompanied the rise of the roller as a competitive and relatively easy stroke to learn.Moore,it should be noted,won not a few of his titles along side Loffredo,someone,to my knowledge who has won at least 100 titles over nearly forty years of competitive foosball , beginning in 1972. |
| ||
|
# 18.4 - It is considered a distraction, after setting up a shot, to remove a hand from the handle and then shoot the ball. The ball may only be shot after both hands are on the handles for a full second. Rules Clarification August 1996 The problem with this rule is the wording which will be corrected on the next revision of the rules. The intent of the rule is to avoid having a player remove their hands from the handles IN A DISTRACTING MANNER and then shooting as soon as they place their hand back on the handle. The word "grasped" was used in the last sentence of this rule. In the case of the "Roll-Over" shot, the rod will be considered to be grasped when on the wrist of the shooter. In an attempt to stay consistent with the way we have been ruling in the cases where a roll-over shooter shoots as soon as he slides his wrist on the handle, this will be legal as long as it is not done in a distracting manner. The way this is ruled will be looked at by the officiating committee and possibly changed after the World Championships. The one second on the handle does not apply in singles except in the case of a set shot on the forward three row. The European style roll-over straight: This is shot by making the play figure spin around while rolling the handle from your palm to you fingertips. It is most common with the European style front pin and a straight option on a pull shot. This is a legal shot. |
The last post to this thread is more than 30 days old.