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Calgary & Edmonton & Vancouver
| Topic: Fireball tables have arrived |
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Posted: Apr 4 2011 5:14PM
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hey will if you need a hand getting them setup maybe we can get a bunch of people out on monday night or something...im willing to lend a hand |
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Thanks Simon! |
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How much are they worth? |
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They are selling for $1150 for pick up on April 17th. E-mail me if you are interested in purchasing a table will_stranks@hotmail.com |
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The tables look good with the blue surface and the black rods. The rods are very smooth. The only thing I can say about this table is the feel of the man. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's just different. They seem to have a little softer feel when catching a pass. Shots seem to be lighning fast but that might just be the noise maker in the net. Brush passers will have to make a bit of an adjustment as the table and men are a little more grippy than the tornado. Probably just move the position of the ball more under the bar. Chip passes are quite easy. The table seems to play faster than the Tornado. The walls are very lively. I hit a couple sling shots very easily. I think overall there is less margin for error on this table and it will make it easier for lower ranked players to be more consistent. I'm pretty sure in less than an hour most people will adapt to the fireball. There will be some things that you can do on a tornado that might not work on a fireball first try, you just need to get use to the timing. Pull shots are a dream to shoot. Effortless. Actually every shot I tried on the three bar was easy to execute. If you shoot back pins, I think this might be the table you have been waiting for for the last 30 years. The ball returns seem to work better than the tables at the WSO. The table is heavy and very solid. |
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"If you shoot back pins, I think this might be the table you have been waiting for for the last 30 years." Hmmmmm ... |
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The handles are quite a bit larger than Tornado. With out a wrap I would say its equal to a tornado handle with 2 wraps. C.A.L. - you should like this. The other thing is the corners of the play field has a hollow sound and are less bouncy than the center of the play field. This might be a good thing in keeping the ball in your end. The score markers are the magnetic ones and they have 7 beads for your score, 3 beads for game score and 2 beads for time outs. |
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You aberta guys pretty lucky getting a two week start on the new table! And here i am getting muscle memory on tornado.. lol Just like Simon i found the feeling of the men when catching a pass little too soft. I ask the owner to make the men thicker and maybe heavier so they feel like tornado but guess he did not.. to bad. Other then that the table sounds great!! Cant wait to see and play on them!! Thanks Simon for the detail description... Practice cause i might be coming..hahaha |
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Simon, compared to the tables in seattle a year ago is the table more solid now, ie:a quick wall pass is possible now because every single time i tried to do it in seattle the ball would jump up. |
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The slope away from the wall has been reduced. Wall passes don't raise up anymore. One thing I noticed was the ball does raise a little when shooting. It doesn't roof like the tornado use to but it does raise. The shorter slope also let's you set up a pull shot close to the wall on two bar. Something that was hard to do at the WSO because of the slope. Keep in mind I am using a tornado ball. I'm not sure how the fireball ball will play as it sounds like it might be more grippy. |
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Craig, The table improvements from last are quite noticable. The table is a lot heavier and way more solid. I think it is much easier for the transition to this table from tornado than the ones in Seattle. These tables have the three man goalie, something you are use to from the tornado. |
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I tried the table out at Simon's briefly last night, and I can compare it to the old fireball and the brand new T-3000's from Vegas (and the 7 new ones we just purchased in Edmonton). The table is HEAVY. It is as close to Tornado weight as any other table I have ever seen, and because the bumpers are better the table will jar much less. The rods slide really smooth, and are perfectly strait. Even the new rods from Tornado are not as strait as the Fireball, but Fireball rods don't bend. The black rods are much better than the silver rods. I thought I liked the silver ones because they are really fast. The black ones are still fast but are silky smooth while they glide. It would be impossible to reset the ball without hitting the wall, whereas on Tornado sometimes an aggressive shake can move the ball around. The snap you get when releasing a shot (pull or push shot, pull kick or push kick) is just incredible. The ball is easier to shoot from the 2 or the 5, I guess it just takes less effort to make the ball go faster and be more accurate. The ramp on the side wall is the best I have seen on any table. The ball is really easy to keep from doing the 3 wall Warrior/Tornado rule. If you pull the ball up against the wall it rolls away far enough that you can just control the ball, but the ball doesn't skip up when it hits the side strip. Wall passes seem easy - I was TRYING to make the ball skip up and I couldn't make skip up in the air. 2 bar setup is easy. The flat surface in the corners because of the 3 man is really nice. The men are grippy, it is really easy to pin the ball and move the ball around in a pinned position. The takeoff on a rollover is easy to do, so I would guess that for backpin or europin shots it would also be easy. It is easy to TicTac. I liked the old fireball for this as well, the shape of the man is the same, so nothing is different from that aspect. The net sounds awesome, super loud. The surface is really fast, and looks cool. I think thats all i've got for now. |
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Nice!!! Guess ill be cpming!!! |
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Have you got the shirts yet? |
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Also are we using the fireball ball? There was debate about that in seattle, and would like it not to continue in Edmonton. I think the tables were horrible in Seattle so anything would be an improvement. Also, what is being done about the floor surface in the tournament area, it was to slick for the tables last time i was there. |
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Not sure about the ball, but I can tell you that the tables in seattle were nothing compared to this table. It plays just fine. I have tried a multitude of different passes from fast walls, slow walls, off the wall up, off the wall down, stick lanes, tic tac lanes and walls, stick up pass, stick down pass, chip up pass, tic tac 2 man to 2 man ect. Everything worked well. No issues with the ball hopping. You can hit the lane passes hard and it sticks to your man. I really can't find anything bad to say about the playability other than this table makes everything you do seem easier. Not sure if this is a good thing or not. If anyone is planning on using a race D (Ivor) against a pull shot. Forget about it. The ball moves very fast. Same with a rollover. The ball explodes to the net and its easy to hit it deep (and my rollover sucks) The tables at the mall tournament last time were warrior and I can't remember what the feet were like on the table but on these fireball tables there is a rubber pad on the bottom of the adjustable foot. The tables are a lot heavier than the warrior so they shouldn't move. I don't think the floor in the mall will be an issue. Hope you come out for this one Craig. I don't think you will be disappointed with the table. |
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Lol ... guess i'll state my stipulations before i decide to attend. With there be ample Growers Apple Cider (extra dry) available on site at a reasonable price. Also, i'd like ice to be available for free if possible ... that is all. TIA  |
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Sorry, i forgot where the event is being held for a moment ... I'm sure ice won't be a problem in Edmonton  . |
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There is a liquor store in the mall not far from the tournament site. Also there is an ice rink in the mall so ice isn't an issue. You can have the ice from the Zamboni. Seriously though I was screwing around with back pins today and they are way easier to execute than on tornado. I think you will be surprised. |
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Yeah, i've played on fireball a few times already ... this one sounds like they might finally have it right. |
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Thats not fair Simon! Will actually let you take a table home to practice.. How am i ever gonna beat you guys now? hahaha |
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Well those tables came through Vancouver's port so i'm guessing a few people in Van have them too  . |
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Hey Tuan, are we going out Friday night. Same place as last time? |
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Craig - the new Fireball (ball) is essentially a hybrid between a Tornado ball and a Warrior ball. It is fast but grippy and it roll's true. The ball that came with the other tables was complete junk, for a north american player. It didn't roll strait and was light, it dented easily and bounced off of men. The new ball is pretty nice, but I'm going to get some other players opinions of the ball first before making the decision. If the floor in the mall is too slippery then we will add 6x6 rubber pads underneath the feet. At gateway (our main location here) we have a similar problem with the slippery floor.. As Simon mentioned, these feet are very grippy so it might not be an issue. We have a week in the mall, so we get a lot of time to test out the tables and see how they play - make sure everything is perfect by the weekend. Simon got to take home a table and set it up for a few reasons... - wanted to open a box and make sure we had everything we needed now - he recieved all of the tables, and is bringing them to the mall - it is nice to have a players opinion of the table that isn't mine on the board |
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Simon could keep the table at home for a year for all i care.. lol It was only a joke. Simon same place is is good by me. |
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My opinion regarding the ball, the table is designed to be used with that ball, so use it. Everyone is used to a tornado ball, but this is a fireball table, so use the fireball ball. Simon's cheating, take the table away! That 2 weeks on the table will give him an unfair advantage, I demand that a table be sent to every players house that is attending asap! |
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"My opinion regarding the ball, the table is designed to be used with that ball, so use it." That neither looks like an opinion nor a fact ... pure fantasy is what it is. I say let common sense prevail, use the ball that plays the best. Why in the heck would you do otherwise. That being said, i hear that they have a vastly superior ball now than previous fireballs ... so maybe it is better than Tornado balls now (which also vary in playability). ~IMHO |
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Fly, that new ball has only been completed 2days ago, so it wont be at this edm tourny, but i hear its gonna be the most perfectly circled ball ever! |
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Hi fellow Canadian fooser friends, Thanks angain for your valuable input that has helped us upgrade the table to the current state. I am glad you liked the changes we made. As to the ball use, I also think that since it is now round and grippy made ready for tournament use, that ball should be used for the WEM event even though we have sent only 22 to Will and another 42 are on the way. The design of the ball is based on the same philosophy of making Fireball cater to or enhance various styles of play. As much as I understand that your are all used to the T ball, using the T ball on Fireball will not give the table a fair chance or the unique identity it deserves. I know our ball in the past sucked but I think you will like these new balls which fall between T ball and W ball in hardness and have been gound to a roundness camparable to the T balls. The softer material will prolong the life of the rough/grippy surface which is achieved though tumblling. So Fireball ball for Fireball table is what we will recommend, and the same balls will be used on Fireball tables planned for the WSO later. As to the weight of the foot, Tuan and Fred and others have suggested that we increase bulk of the foot to catch the ball better. I agree as well. But my aim is to have a table that palyers from around the world can adapt and play. We all know that the Europeans play on tables with "tiny" foot. So adding too much weight will probably turn some players away. As much as I want make my Canadian friends happy, I have many other people shouting into my ears as well. So please bear with it and try to adapt to a lighter foot. I am sure the game can be played faster and your push, 5-bar handling, etc will be easier and faster. Dennis |
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Dennis what is the weight of the Fireball Man ? (grams) The weight of your present Ball? How does it compare to Tornado's set and the European sets ? I like the choice of getting good play handling from the ball development into a balanced focus. |
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The Fireball figure weighs 52 grams. I do not have a Tornado figure with me to measure its weight. The ball weighs 26 grams, the same as T and W balls. |
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The Tornado man weighs 65 grams > 25% heavier overall. Still counter-balanced. |
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Dennis.. Just like the three men goalie table you made for the states why not make new men for the states too? Even if you made the men heavier everywhere, i dont think europe would mine because the rods are so light they would not even know the difference. THE KEY IS NOT MAKING ABOUT MAKING EVERYONE HAPPY BUT MAKING THE BEST TABLE OUT THERE!!! |
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On these tables, the 3-bar and 2-bar are thicker walled with almost the same thickness as Tornado. So the overall weight of these 2 rods is close to Tornado already even the men are lighter. My plight is that everyone has a different idea of what is the best table for him or her. In a way, I am trying to be different from Tornado in some aspects to give Fireball a distinctive identity. Peace |
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I'd kick your ass Denise ... where are you lol |
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I guess you would. I am where else? China, at the factory working my ass off for the playing pleasure of you foosers. I am a foosball slave. No communist though. Too bad I could not make to the WEM this time. I would love to be back to see you all play. I will try to be at the WSO though. |
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Spinner - once you get used to the men you will be able to feel the ball better. I know what you are talking about, the ball sort of feels dead on the men. After a couple days of playing Fireball you will have a very fine sense of the ball. Tornado starts to feel heavy, almost like dead weight. With the new ball the feel is even better. Are you going to make it up here for the DYP? |
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No dip.. Fri afternoon is when i land. |
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How many tables Will? I only see eleven boxes. |
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11 - USA PRO TOUR 3 man tables (short 1 from the plan) 2 - Pro Tour 1 man goalie - for pick up games etc |
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I have to agree with Dennis, the fireball table plays better with a fireball ball. The ball is a little more grippy but it doesn't look that way. It has a little bit of texture to it but not much. The ball rolls very straight and sets up nice. It's kind of a puke orange color. I have had a few wall passes jump up on me and get blocked by the opposing 5 row bumper. This seems to happen only if you hit the pass super hard. Even though the new ball seems more grippy it doesn't squib the ball on steep downs. I don't think anyone that comes to this tournament will be disappointed with the table or the ball. I will say that in my opinion the fireball table makes the game easier to play than on tornado. |
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"I will say that in my opinion the fireball table makes the game easier to play than on tornado." I'm wondering what Ramfag thinks about this point...I know he isn't much for doing anything that takes less skill... |
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RamJag...friggin' index fingers |
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Interesting typo. And I totally overlooked it until the correction which mostly served to draw attention to the original typo. Well played Mr. Van Melle, well played. |
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Tim wins the best post of the week! |
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Each outside man on the goalie rod is about 1 cm closer to the center man on fire ball than on tornado You can actually cover part of the one hole and five hole at the same time with the goalie rod. I have noticed that with the men being closer together the deflections off the outside men might be worse than tornado. |
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You may be right Simon. That idea came from some players to seal off the chance of the ball sneaking into the goal from beside the goalie man. So the goalie goes over the goal by 1/4", which also brought the outside men closer. We will see how this is received. |
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I played on the new table with Simon yesterday-here is my synopsis(that's for Tim) - played better than the table that was at the Edmonton tourney last year - The shots from the 2 bar seem slower than Tornado, but I attribute that to the ball-not as dense/hard as Tornados - 3 bar pin shots are good-I am able to move the ball around and do lots of adjustemnts without fear of losing the ball-very similar to shooting back pins on Torando with a brand new ball. - the bars are lighter-but the adjustment I had to make was release points & speed of the ball. After an hour it was ok - the biggest struggle I had was on the 5- I struggled with getting the ball in the correct toss position-what I attribute it to believe it or not is the height of the head on the men-different than Tornado-The head of the men on the 5 are taller, and block out the ball on the 5 with my normal stance-causing me to lose sight of the ball-I had to adjust my stance/posture to overcome this. -still just as much slop as a Tornado-maybe more when you are new to the table because it takes a while to get your execution to the same level as Tornado(which is expected) causing you to miss hit the ball-leading to more slop through the miss-execution. - I was hoping to be able to do 3 bar banks-like TS & Warrior but I could not get it on net-Warrior was better for this-but I didn't expect them to make a table for 3 bar banks anyways. - I tried 2 bar banks but couldn't hit any- it's been 20 years since I played on a table that you could consistently hit 2 bar banks-and my timing sucked. Overall I was pleased with the Fireball and look forward to next weekend. |
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>>>-still just as much slop as a Tornado-maybe more when you are new to the table because it takes a while to get your execution to the same level as Tornado(which is expected) causing you to miss hit the ball-leading to more slop through the miss-execution.<<< So that's what happened! |
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I suspect the generation of slop had more to do with Garry's age, failing eyesight, and slower reflexes than with the nature of the table. At least, those are the obvious explanations for the slop that scores on me. |
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Gee... Garry must of had a few somethings to not be able to hit ANY 2 bar banks. I think your holding back on us or only tried like 10 shots. Will are all the tables being setup on Tuesday at the Mall before 4:00 pm? |
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Yes - I'll be at the mall by 11:00 AM on Tuesday - with a few helpers. Any other help would be appreciated! |
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I played a few 2/3 matches with Christian today and we discovered a flaw in the design of the net. If the ball rolls into the net at a slower speed there is a possibility the ball will hit the back of the net below the striker plate. This causes the ball to come straight back out of the net. It also happened on a few banks where it hit the inside corners of the net causing the ball to bounce back out. In some cases it can be hard to tell if the ball went in the net or hit the post. |
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Yes it was quite strange and resulted on a few occasions where we look at each other "was that in?" and neither person was more than 50/50. |
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I'll check it out and if we have to we'll rig something up to slide into the nets to make sure it doesn't happen. |
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Will, If you can, please loosen up the bolt on the end wall and pull down the 2 vertical boards holding the rattle boards in the goal, so the top rattle board is back in position to prevent the ball from bouncing back. |
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Dennis.. or tell them not to hit the ball into the net at slower speeds haha.. |
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who said anything about hitting the ball? |
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Hey Will, Where in the WEM is this happening? I heard it's a pretty big mall B-) I have some friends / co-workers from edmonton that want to check it out |
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Hey Eric, it's going to be held right in front of the HMV stage, next to Chapters. |
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Tournament Location in the mall: New Cap Stage Entrance 56 In front of the big HMV, near the movie theatre. On the very west side of the mall, just off 178th st. |
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